Tuskegee Airmen

[V1670]

Watching "Dogfights" program and the episode about the Tuskegee Airmen.

To the 332nd! Those guys were really good.

[johnnyrace]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Yeah for them....BOO!!! for the upcoming Lucas "Redtails" film...The trailer makes it look awful and the CGI is really bad not only in how it looks, but how ridiculously the airplanes maneuver...another aviation film disaster that may make Thunder Over Reno seem down right Oscar worthy!!!

[Frank C.]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Have you seen "Red Tails"? Don't criticize something till you have seen the whole movie. My 2 cents.

Frank C.

[V1670]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

From what I've seen, the Lucas film takes a bit of leeway in it's presentation to appeal to the younger crowd who like the action at the dispense of realism. None the less, I'll watch it as ANYTHING that has aircraft in it is ok by me.

As for the 332nd...those guys were true heroes.

Oh yeah....one question. Any word on "Air Racer"?

[Coyote Chris]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Saw the trailer on the bigscreen at the theatre for Redtails. In my opinion, the Computer generated graphics work on the big screen, despite the P-51s doing 20 g loops, whereas watching the trailer on my computer makes the CGG look cartoonish. I will see it at the theatre.

[johnnyrace]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Have you seen "Red Tails"? Don't criticize something till you have seen the whole movie. My 2 cents.

Frank C.

Like I said, the "TRAILER" makes it look bad...I did not say it IS bad...But, I have been around the sun enough times to trust my instincts... I suppose I could be wrong...Did not mean to offend though I sometimes wish Mr.Lucas quit involving himself in films after 1980.

[degroodtt]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

I too watched the Dogfight show. Thanks to Tivo I am 1/2 way through the show "Double Victory". It talks about not only the fighting on the war front, but the fight the men had at home for being black. Can't wait to watch the other 1/2 of the show as soon as my Honey Do's are done today. My hat is off to all of those guys. They had to work twice as hard just to get the chance to fight for their country.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

At this point I don't need to see more as far as flying scenes go.

It looks from the trailer that it's PEARL HARBOR all over again as far as fake CGI aircraft are concerned. Remember how their unrealistic jet-like speeds and physics-defying turns ruined a potentially great aviation flick?


I just hope the writing in 'Airmen' is good enough to make up for it, unlike the love story-based theme of 'Pearl'.

[Jeff Lee]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

I could have predicted this reaction from many hard-core aviation folks. Yes, it's a lot of CGI. Yes, it may look like planes are going WAY faster than they should. But this is NOT a "documentary".

We should be thankful that George Lucas had the passion to get this story made in the face of tremendous opposition from the studio. (See Jon Stewart's interview with him from the week of 1/9/12) This story needs to be told to a new generation of young people who are NOT being taught this history in school. You cannot argue that the Tuskegee Airmen CHANGED this country. We owe them a debt of gratitude that we can never fully pay for their bravery in the face of insurmountable odds of racism and discrimination. Yet they prevailed and protected our bombers as they beat back the enemy and won WWII.

I read an article in a production trade magazine talking about the CGI and compositing in the film. All of the battle scenes were choreographed from gun sight camera footage, and countless interviews with airmen. P-51 Pilot Ed Shipley was asked about that flip over move that is scene in the trailer. He said, he didn't know if it could be done, but he wouldn't want to try it. The maneuver was based on a recollection of one of the pilots. True? Not true? Who cares, it's a cool shot, and is VERY entertaining.

Take this film for what it is. It's a great account of a group of men who nobody thought could do anything, and they turned out to be REAL American Heroes. Go see it. Hold your nose during some of the battle scenes if you can't stand the CGI. But I will bet that you will be cheering for these guys by the end of the movie. And isn't that what a couple of hours in a darkened theater is supposed to be about?

Oh yea, and if I haven't completely pissed you off, take a look at the LiveAirShowTV story on these guys, the movie, and the CAF's Red Tails Squadron.

....stepping down off of my soap box

Jeff Lee
LiveAirShowTV

[Eric J.]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

I'll see it because I'm interested in the history and the aircraft. Yes the physics in the CGI dogfight scenes in the trailer are way off in the weeds, but I'm just going to leave those concerns at the popcorn stand and enjoy it anyway.

[Jeff Lee]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Eric,

Good for you!

I will add that the ILM folks said specifically that they did not break the laws of physics when choreographic the battle scenes. Believe it or not, those folks do take that stuff seriously. True animators strive to duplicate realism as much as possible.

They also talked about "junking up" the shots so that they were not as clean. They wanted to use real B-17's but all of the existing planes have been restored to pristine condition, so accurate computer models, based on actual blueprints were used. My good friend Joe Jones in Denver, who is one of the best digital aviation artists in the world uses much the same technique. His renderings are accurate down to the rivet.

Whatever we all may think of Hollywood, there are some who are after more than just box office receipts.

...I guess I wasn't totally off my soap box.

Jeff

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

I could have predicted this reaction from many hard-core aviation folks. Yes, it's a lot of CGI. Yes, it may look like planes are going WAY faster than they should. But this is NOT a "documentary".

Never said it was a documentary, nor does it need to be one. And if the footage is unbelievable, then I could make that prediction too.

I just wanted the planes to fly in a believable manner, and so far, that's not what we are getting. It's within Hollywood's ability, but I guess the real world isn't exciting enough for them, visual-wise.

[Leo]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Have only seen a trailer once on TV, too quick for me to judge anything.
"Pearl Harbor" is the extreme bottom how hollywood can dink up a story.
I always thought Tora was a great movie, but unless you are REALLY into the history it will put you to sleep.
Those of us on these sites are rivet counters in the extreme and no movie (even documentaries) will ever make us happy. Sure, if we had the chance we would use real aircraft,strict historical fact, true story and dialogue, make sure the markings are JUST right, etc. It would be a challenge to get that level of accuracy past the budget department and without some hollywood "punch" the public, sadly, would yawn. Face it, we're geeks.
If they come close, and manage to interest a bunch of the public in the history, I will be very happy.
Looking forward to it!

[Frank C.]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

I could have predicted this reaction from many hard-core aviation folks. Yes, it's a lot of CGI. Yes, it may look like planes are going WAY faster than they should. But this is NOT a "documentary".

We should be thankful that George Lucas had the passion to get this story made in the face of tremendous opposition from the studio. (See Jon Stewart's interview with him from the week of 1/9/12) This story needs to be told to a new generation of young people who are NOT being taught this history in school. You cannot argue that the Tuskegee Airmen CHANGED this country. We owe them a debt of gratitude that we can never fully pay for their bravery in the face of insurmountable odds of racism and discrimination. Yet they prevailed and protected our bombers as they beat back the enemy and won WWII.

I read an article in a production trade magazine talking about the CGI and compositing in the film. All of the battle scenes were choreographed from gun sight camera footage, and countless interviews with airmen. P-51 Pilot Ed Shipley was asked about that flip over move that is scene in the trailer. He said, he didn't know if it could be done, but he wouldn't want to try it. The maneuver was based on a recollection of one of the pilots. True? Not true? Who cares, it's a cool shot, and is VERY entertaining.

Take this film for what it is. It's a great account of a group of men who nobody thought could do anything, and they turned out to be REAL American Heroes. Go see it. Hold your nose during some of the battle scenes if you can't stand the CGI. But I will bet that you will be cheering for these guys by the end of the movie. And isn't that what a couple of hours in a darkened theater is supposed to be about?

Oh yea, and if I haven't completely pissed you off, take a look at the LiveAirShowTV story on these guys, the movie, and the CAF's Red Tails Squadron.

....stepping down off of my soap box

Jeff Lee
LiveAirShowTV

I agree with you Jeff. My wife's uncle flew B-24's over Europe. Long story short, said uncle said those Red Tails were good. I am sure every bomber crew appreciated an escort from these guys when they flew a mission over the Europe. Off my soapbox.

Frank C.

[Jeff Lee]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Leo,

You hit it. Many of us are never satisfied. I do straddle the fence since I'm in the production biz, AND I'm into airplanes.

You said it. It has to have that "Hollywood Punch" to attract the movie going public (teens etc). If there's enough action in it, they'll go see it. And maybe, just maybe they might learn something, or retain enough to ask questions later.

I'm with you guys..... just stirring the pot a little.

Jeff