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blacksheep
08-04-2003, 03:25 PM
I'm looking for any pictures to download of an old sport biplane called the"Sorceress" all aluminum staggerwing with inverted gullwing on the bottom


Blacksheep

Bill Larkins
08-09-2003, 10:45 PM
I remember it but I don't know if I have a photo of it. I'll look...
Bill L
--------------------


Originally posted by blacksheep
I'm looking for any pictures to download of an old sport biplane called the"Sorceress" all aluminum staggerwing with inverted gullwing on the bottom


Blacksheep

Gil
08-10-2003, 06:58 AM
I know I have various pics of it ,I will just have to find them and scan them and I will try and post a few for you

Unregistered
06-18-2004, 04:45 PM
This was my Uncle Don Beck's plane. I have a few 8x10s at home. Call me @ 925 363 5111 I will copy them and send them to you

Blair Beck

Unregistered
06-21-2004, 09:53 AM
I remember watching it race years ago. Does anyone know whatever happened to the plane?

blacksheep
06-22-2004, 05:18 PM
if my memory is correct it (or Sundancer) is in storage at the Smithsonian Air Musuem.

blacksheep
07-09-2004, 11:50 AM
:) Blair Beck , The nephew of Don Beck the owner of Sorceress was kind enough to send me a framed copy of an areial shot of Scorceress shot over Lake Tahoe along with an extra copy so I can scan it in for the rest of you to enjoy :) which I will do the first chance I get

Unregistered
10-26-2004, 12:20 PM
I remember watching it race years ago. Does anyone know whatever happened to the plane?
It is in the Smithsonian

Pylon1_Mark
10-26-2004, 10:40 PM
Well, it's probably not as nice as your pic - but here's one from the old pylon1.com website.

A special thanks to photographer, Chuck Aro :thumbsup:

Photo info: Taken at Reno 1972, Sorceress Race #89 took 1st place in the Biplane Class - flown by pilot/owner Don Beck - set a new race record speed that year of 189.72MPH.
(note metal stress shown in upper left wing)

Shawn Aro
10-27-2004, 09:46 AM
Hey what a cool photo yeah man

blacksheep
10-27-2004, 11:52 PM
Thanks Mark,
I still think She is the most beautiful biplane ever built

Race5
10-29-2004, 06:07 PM
Didn't that ship begin life as a Midget Mustang?

Apteryx
10-29-2004, 07:28 PM
(note metal stress shown in upper left wing)
The wings were fully cantilevered, the struts were added on only
to comply with class rules, pop-riveted at first if memory serves me.

Apteryx
10-29-2004, 08:09 PM
Thanks Mark,
I still think She is the most beautiful biplane ever built
There were quite a few beautiful & interesting designs, in that class, during that period. I've got another thread on this forum looking for some photos of the other designs. Dave Forbes Cobra, Sundancer, (Sorceress), Rutan-Quickie, were all pretty, Hot canary, Jonathan Livingston Seagull, Miss-Q, some of the Mong, Knightister and Smith mods, all made it an entertaining class, for a while.
I contratulate Tom Aberle for stiring things up this year.... :thumbsup:
Love to see the bi-plane guys put up an official web site and start paying tribute to the history & creativity, the class has shown.
.................................................. .................Paul

blacksheep
10-30-2004, 01:13 AM
When Don Beck's Scorcess and Dr. Sid White's Sundancer were in their prime sport class Biplanes were a race for 3rd place .

If my memory serves me Scorcess was orignally designed as a cross country ship and didn't fit the sport biplane rule until it had a landing accident and damaged a lower wing tip. So the lower wings were shortened to make it qualify and having cantiverered wings it did not require the wing struts required by the rules so they were added to the wing tips

Sundancer was based on the "miget mustang " with the bottom inverted gull wing added

Apteryx
10-30-2004, 10:10 AM
Sundancer was based on the "midget mustang " with the bottom inverted gull wing added
Ditto on Cobra.
There were some speed discrepencies in that class, when a rule change, allowed for bigger engines. There was a "gentlemans aggrement" with the FAST guys, to stick with the smaller o-290's, and wait untill the slower guys started catching up. THAT didn't last long......
BIG SALUTE :thumbsup: to the inovators, (whether something worked or not, you never know till you try, you never get anywere, standing still, (OK you never get anywere in a race either, but you get the point)............................................ ..................Paul
-------------------------------------------------------------
HEY MR. RUTAN, got some free time now? How about another racer?

caldwell
11-26-2004, 06:49 AM
Sorceress was the joint concept of Lee Mahoney and Les Wagner. It was conceived as a home built unlinmted, using a Corvette engine. At soem point in time, Lee and Les parted ways and the airplane was built in Mickey Mahoney's garage in Inglewood by Lee, Mickey, Don Schmidt, Ron Hackworth and myself, with help at times from Lee' (then) brother-in-law.
The airplane is in storage in the Silver Hills segment of the Smithsonian, unless it haas been moved in the past few years.
I have a few pictures and some slides of the construction.
marsh caldwell

AAFO_WSagar
11-26-2004, 11:36 AM
Marsh, I'm sure everyone here would LOVE to see whatever photos you have! Let me know if I can be of help in getting them posted. If you have them "digitized" (scanned or whatever) it will be pretty easy, if they are still in print, negative or slide form, we can handle that for you also if necessary. Feel free to email me at submit@aafo.com (I'll respond with my "real" email address) if you want to share the images!

Wayne

Pylon1_Mark
11-28-2004, 01:36 PM
Marsh, I'm sure everyone here would LOVE to see whatever photos you have! Let me know if I can be of help in getting them posted. If you have them "digitized" (scanned or whatever) it will be pretty easy, if they are still in print, negative or slide form, we can handle that for you also if necessary. Feel free to email me at submit@aafo.com (I'll respond with my "real" email address) if you want to share the images!

Wayne
Woot - and don't forget... my Nikon Super Coolscan 4000 ED is always at everyone's dispoasal. Guarnteed top results from your slides, and I'll be more then happyto supply you with a CD or DVD of the full res versions for your personal archive. The offer is always open :thumbsup:

AAFO_WSagar
11-28-2004, 03:07 PM
Woot - and don't forget... my Nikon Super Coolscan 4000 ED is always at everyone's dispoasal. Guarnteed top results from your slides, and I'll be more then happyto supply you with a CD or DVD of the full res versions for your personal archive. The offer is always open :thumbsup:Wow, you could be kept REALLY busy bit it occurs to me, I'd bet there are tons of really rare photos out there in the hands of some of the folks who visit here. If we could get them digitized and on-line viewable, it would be huge!

Even some of Mr. Larkins photos have trouble, as seen here because of his scanner quality....

(by the way, Bill has not been answering email and posts here and we can only pray that he's OK!!)

I can only kick myself that my earliest visits to Reno were done with a 110 P&S and those tiny negs are impossible to scan as far as I know and the prints are trash....

Wayne

Pylon1_Mark
11-28-2004, 10:52 PM
I can only kick myself that my earliest visits to Reno were done with a 110 P&S and those tiny negs are impossible to scan as far as I know and the prints are trash....
You can always mount negatives in slide mounts - easy peasy :D

Pylon1_Mark
11-28-2004, 10:57 PM
(by the way, Bill has not been answering email and posts here and we can only pray that he's OK!!)
He certainly has my prayers that all is going well with him and family. We can only hope that this is just a temporary thing - people like Bill are treasures and loosing someone like that would be devistating to the sport. :(

AAFO_WSagar
11-29-2004, 09:41 AM
You can always mount negatives in slide mounts - easy peasy :DHummn... Markers, if you don't mind, and when done would not be an issue (i.e. take your time!) I'll dig out those that I do have and send them off to you. They would, obviously, even if done in the best manner possible, be terrible quality, especially if compaired to today's photos. But, I think there is some history there. I know I've got Gary Levitz in an unpainted #38 P-38 taxiing out and a lot of pit stuff from '79 (my first year) and each year thereafter, I took, at least, some stuff. I was not what you'd call "avid" in my photographic efforts and somewhere around '89, I bought a video camera and did not take any stills during the period from when I got it till my last race before the 5 year hiatus from going, after my dad died... It'd be interesting to see the stuff I did take, done well and see if anything is of value.

Wayner

AAFO_WSagar
11-29-2004, 09:43 AM
He certainly has my prayers that all is going well with him and family. We can only hope that this is just a temporary thing - people like Bill are treasures and loosing someone like that would be devistating to the sport. :(Bill truely is a treasure, some of the stuff he produces is just amazing. He seemingly was EVERYWHERE back then when so many interesting things were happening in aviation. He also has some absolutely sickening shots of row after row of beautiful historic warbirds awaiting the smelter... if only more people would have had the vision of what might be, we will only get to imagine filling the skies with the old warplanes as was once done... if only...

Bill, wherever you are, if you read this, we all hope it finds you in good health! If not, get well soon my friend!

Wayner

Pylon1_Mark
12-04-2004, 12:22 AM
Hummn... Markers, if you don't mind, and when done would not be an issue (i.e. take your time!) I'll dig out those that I do have and send them off to you. They would, obviously, even if done in the best manner possible, be terrible quality, especially if compaired to today's photos. But, I think there is some history there. I know I've got Gary Levitz in an unpainted #38 P-38 taxiing out and a lot of pit stuff from '79 (my first year) and each year thereafter, I took, at least, some stuff. I was not what you'd call "avid" in my photographic efforts and somewhere around '89, I bought a video camera and did not take any stills during the period from when I got it till my last race before the 5 year hiatus from going, after my dad died... It'd be interesting to see the stuff I did take, done well and see if anything is of value.

Wayner
Send 'em down bro - you know I LOVE stuff like that.... finding that "hidden treasure" only takes a little time & effort. In fact, I think I'm going to be re-scanning all my old photos too. It will be good therapy to get back into the swing of things. :thumbsup:

AAFO_WSagar
12-04-2004, 10:58 AM
Hey, thanks Markers... very cool... I'll dig through the old photo boxes, providing I can find them after all my moves over the last few years! I moved twice in just over 20 years, then over the last 5, I've moved something like four times... stuff tends to get.. "lost" in the shuffle.. not really lost but might as well be!

I hope some of those old 110's are worth the effort. One of these days, I'll also have to dig out my old Hi8 video collection. It's not as old, only going back to maybe '88-'89 era but should be some interesting stuff there also. Since I have a computer that will handle editing, I shoud be able to come up with something of interest. (if my energy ever returns!)

On the Bill Larkins front, GOOD NEWS! I received a couple emails from Bill and he's alive and well and working hard, which is why we've not seen him lately.

He's got a couple books coming out and I'll try to keep up on them, and hopefully, Bill will check in here from time to time to keep us informed of his adventures! He truly is a treasure, his archives are amazing, as is his depth of information on avaiation and photography of same!

Stay well and productive Bill!!

Wayne

dineega
12-05-2004, 02:11 PM
I have some photos from the early 80's??
White Lightnin, Blue Max, Nuthin Special,
Super K, The Bear in her old colours, Strega,etc.
Maybe some of them would be of use to someone besides me.
I don't have a scanner, but if someone wants to take a look at them
I can send them along. There's at least a few decent shots there.
cheers, Rachel

rpzo
12-05-2004, 07:03 PM
Wayne,

You never know what you might find when going through those boxes of old 110's. I found these a while back in a box I had left at my parents house when I moved out 20 years ago. The black Mustang is Clay Klabo's and I don't remember who owned the P-40 but it was a popular airplane at the time. Both were taken with a Kodak 110 instamatic at an airshow in Livermore sometime around 1975. The T-bird T-38 shot was taken at Travis AFB in 1976.

I remember the Livermore event because a friend and I pedaled our bikes about 45 miles to get there. Things got ugly later in the day when the rain started and we had to call my dad for a ride home. He was more than surprised to find out where he had to pick us up at and I ended up being grounded for a week. Small price to pay.

rpzo
12-05-2004, 07:16 PM
Wayne,

Having difficulty uploading this evening. The pics have been sent to your server but they don't appear to be attaching to the message. I see them listed with the other pics that I've uploaded in the past but there not attached to any messages. Theyr'e identified as 'In Progress' :dunno: Must be a ghost in the machine this evening

AAFO_WSagar
12-05-2004, 08:11 PM
Wayne,

Having difficulty uploading this evening. The pics have been sent to your server but they don't appear to be attaching to the message. I see them listed with the other pics that I've uploaded in the past but there not attached to any messages. Theyr'e identified as 'In Progress' :dunno: Must be a ghost in the machine this eveningRick, had that happen to me once.. I can not remember what I did to "unlock" it... wuz a glitch with one of them I think... can you delete the attachments in question and then reupload? I think that's what I had to do.

Wayne

rpzo
12-05-2004, 08:27 PM
can you delete the attachments in question and then reupload?

I tried that but the checkbox for the 3 images in question wasn't there. Even tried changing the underscores in the filename to dashes since sometimes UNIX can be picky about that. Still no joy.

The filenames for the three images are: AV01_24_01, AV01_26_15, and AV01_26_16.

:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

AAFO_WSagar
12-05-2004, 08:42 PM
I tried that but the checkbox for the 3 images in question wasn't there. Even tried changing the underscores in the filename to dashes since sometimes UNIX can be picky about that. Still no joy.

The filenames for the three images are: AV01_24_01, AV01_26_15, and AV01_26_16.

:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:Did you get them deleted? I did a search for them in the admin panel, had them, about to delete them and then when I did, I got a file not found message.. now, when I do the search, it finds no files.. strange?

Wayne

rpzo
12-05-2004, 09:25 PM
Did you get them deleted?

No, the checkbox to delete wasn't there for those three files.

However, it appears that it is working now. Finally the three pictures in question. All this to prove a point that even though the quality might not be there you may find a few gems in those old 110's from 30 years ago.

:D

Pylon1_Mark
12-05-2004, 09:45 PM
I have some photos from the early 80's??
White Lightnin, Blue Max, Nuthin Special,
Super K, The Bear in her old colors, Strega,etc.
Maybe some of them would be of use to someone besides me.
I don't have a scanner, but if someone wants to take a look at them
I can send them along. There's at least a few decent shots there.
cheers, Rachel
Ohhh - sounds like a lot of fun :thumbsup: . I'd be happy to digitize them for you - and I know a Lot of the air racing fans would be most appreciative of eye candy like that. My snail mail addy is

Mark Kallio
863 Camelia Dr
Livermore, CA 94550

I'd also be happy to pick up any mail charges :)

All the best :thumbsup:

dineega
12-06-2004, 08:05 AM
I'll send them your way. I'll let you know when they go.
thanks Mark!!!
Rachel