View Full Version : Subscribing to view content on AAFO.com

04-22-2002, 12:12 AM
would you guys pay to visit or download stuff from this site?? Lemme know if you would!! We could use the $$


This is one of a few sights that I visit "regularly". Having to pay a modist fee (if it comes to that) would not upset me...... much. There are a few things that I ask you to consider thoe when making that discision.
Do not make it a credit card only subscription. I do not and will not give a credit card number over the net. for this reason alone I am not a subscriber to any web sight on the net. I perfer to pay for things over the net with a money order. If I have to wait to recive any thing because of this....so be it.
I am royaly pissed at NASCAR.com for asking us consumers for money to view there Race Cast, and DL any video content. The thing is I would pay to use it (It is my second most visited web sight), but the fact that I HAVE to use a credit card, just burns me.
All I ask. Please have other payment options. Keep an open mind for other users of this sight.
That said you can put me down as a YES vote on having to "subscribe" for use of the AAFO web sight.


PS. I thought that this topic deserved it's own thread. I hope you don't mind.

04-22-2002, 12:54 AM
It's not come to that for us yet, nor does it look like it any time soon. We are always looking for ways to fund this site as currently it is mostly out of the "depth of our pockets" as well as with the generous support of a few sponsors.

The thought of making this site a subscriber only site is chilling actually because in the end, I think that would be the one thing we could do that would kill the growth of traffic, which currently doubles about every year.

Getting the information out and growing interest in the sport of air racing and aviation in general is what it's all about. Of course, getting helped with the expenses involved with doing that would not only be nice but would enable us to be more places and get more news first hand.

LOL.. maybe a "donation" button, which I've seen on a few sites would be good..

Not to worry though. We're not about to start charging for content or give up the potential advertisement real estate on the site to "popup" ads or commercial ads from an agency that we don't control the content of.

Anyway, sort of a long answer to your post but thought an explanation was in order. We don't do this for the money (obviously) but getting *something* in return, since none of us involved with the site have six figure incomes would be nice!

As you can probably tell by the hours we keep at at, Both Mark D. and myself are at this full time. At one time I did this site and a couple others as a hobby. Two years ago, I was given the option by my former employer to either give up my "hobby" which took up a lot of my "attention span" and all of my off time (guess I was mistaken in thinking that in a free country we can have a hobby outside of our work ;) ) or take early retirement..

Easy choice really..

Thanks for the support!


04-22-2002, 06:56 AM
I would pay up to keep the site going. I would also love to purchase a hat or tee shirt for the cost of the shirt plus $25 or some thing. I dont like to give my credit card # over the web either. I would give it over the phone.

04-22-2002, 11:19 AM
Actually, if everyone starts flooding Wayne with donations, maybe he can actually *pay* his cartoonist! Lets see, <flipping through ledger> back payment owed for ‘toons submitted…. Ah, comes out to an even $1.35M. Yeah, you guys better start throwing a LOT of money at Wayne!

Of course, since Wayne will be the first to remind me that I am “just dirt (well, actually I believe he said something else, but I’ll keep it clean <grin>) without my editor”…. I’ll cut him a discount.

Actually, like Wayne and Bear, just about all of the contributors and fans that keep this going do so for the shear love of the sport- myself included. Infact, I am volunteering my time and services for several groups (and relax Wayne, not your “competition” <grin>), including among others: the Seattle Museum of Flight (both the Restoration center and potentially a significant involvement with the main Museum too). This is all in the interest of promoting sport aviation and because I am truly an enthusiast (my friends insist “obsessed” is more accurate).

I agree with Wayne, that keeping the this site FREE goes a long ways to continuing to build the fan base for aviation and air racing alike.

However, in siding with MattB, I too have hounded Wayne to put together a store front to serve as means to generate enough “income” to at least keep things self-sustaining. While I am lucky enough not to have to live out of pocket (or spend my pension) to keep up this “hobby”, I would still like to see it to the point of at least covering the cost of materials. Time I will gladly contribute…

My $.02… though I want my change back this time!


04-22-2002, 11:43 AM
I too like the idea of a store. and I would buy a hat, Tshirt, and what ever. The idea of keeping the sight a Free sight is good, and will continue to promote the sport. But if we Had a T-shirt with a Kraz creation on it with AAFO.com as well we can get the word out faster. Just inagn if we all whent to an air show with these T-shirts on Wayne. Free advertising..... for the web sight and for the sport we all love.

There's you change Kraz:D


04-22-2002, 12:49 PM
Watch it Kraz, I can just as easily cut your pay in half as all the times that I've doubled it!!! :D

Ahh the store thing. Yes Yes Yes... we are "working" on that end to be sure. We do have a bank account in place and software chosen for that exact purpose that actually works.. but, as Bear will attest.. We have a broken clock in this "business" the damn thing runs through 24 hours seemingly in about 8 hours...

No excuses though... I have a move coming up (moving back to my "home" town of Portland) and once that and a couple of other very pressing obligations are out of the way, we're going to get that store thing done. If not sooner.

Phone orders... hummn.. We as other businesses might have a slight problem with that. We can process card orders with our current banking scheme but I'm not entirely sure we can process numbers given over the phone. And not to diss anyone's caution, I regularly hear about people who are uncomfortable about cc info over the net who will wllingly give that same info over an unsecure phone line, many cases, over a cordless phone. Which I'm not sure everyone knows are easly eavesdropped by any ordinary radio scanner. Or, comfortable with giving that same info to a $6.50 per hour service station attendant, or who routinely throw away their card receipts in the trash without shredding them.

cc info given on the net is protected by extremely secure encryption and generally, if it lives on the server after submission, exists behind several layers of security and again, encryption. So despite the fears of some, in reality, cc purchases over the net are by far more secure than those by phone, or perhaps, most other means.

At any rate, we will, of course, when we get to that bridge, accomodate everyone's needs the best way possible...

My $.02 and it just about broke me :D


04-22-2002, 03:21 PM
>…our content is such that we're practically an on-line e-zine…

True. Though, other than the die-hard fanatics, setting the site up to be a pay site would be at the cost of the casual passer-byers. As Air-Race forums go, this one continues to stand out above the others, however, (and I don’t mean this in a negative light by any means) I don’t think that there is enough content <currently> to maintain both a free AND fee side(s) of the site. Take a look at Av-web and some of the others. There is so much content out there that is free, why would some one pay (other than the die-hards)? Wayne would need to give up what little sleep he does get in order to do practically daily updates on a much broader scope. While it would be nice to see some return on the diligent efforts and hard work of all those involved, I would hate to see it at the cost of loosing the causal readers/spectators. I have to agree with Wayne’s approach on this one. Also, if the readers and fans truly support the cause, offer something, like t-shirts or hats, as a means of making contributions. I currently do not subscribe to and pay sites, and will remain stubborn in not doing so. Not from identity/cc issue, but from a mere monetary basis.


04-22-2002, 05:48 PM
I think you are entering a vicious cycle when you have to hire staff to process content to feed those that pay for the site. You will be standing in the middle collecting funds in one hand and writing checks for the same amount (or more) with the other,,,,

Are we any farther ahead of the current state of the art? I don't think so...

One reality that I have noticed is that there are fewer people contributing to the forums since "The Move" - a fact that really doesn't matter cuz we dont produce income or expenses for the site, and it is bound to grow through natural processes. Granted, there may well be a number of folks just browsing who don't make their presence known. But if we were all subscribers, or sources of income, there would be huge pressures to keep, and get more subscribers...I would hate to see the day where it would take pictures of naked women draped over a P-51 to attract viewers to this site......... a bit of an exageration (I hope) but some stuff to chew on, nonetheless.........

If it was going to be easy, they wouldn't have sent you........:)

I think you guys are doing an excellent job here....I like the T-shirts at the airshow idea........

04-22-2002, 06:51 PM
It would seem my tongue in cheek remark made mostly in protest to various "big" websites beginning to charge for specific content (ie: video stuff) has sparked a lively debate..

I see no prospect for making this site a pay site, nor was I, in reality, suggesting that. We're sort of in the same boat as many of the racers. We do what we do because we love to do it, if we can get more funding to support what we do, then we just do more of what we do because we love doing it.

I truely believe the key for them and us is growth of the sport and the subsequent sponsorship that *might* come of that.

Until then, they, as we, will keep doing what we can with what we have and hope for that brass ring someday to make it easier..


04-22-2002, 07:55 PM
And Kraz's 1.5 mil:p

and his change:D

04-23-2002, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by wolfee
And Kraz's 1.5 mil:p

and his change:D LOL... .yew guyz make me laugh and make my headache worse.. :(

I remember when I was a kid.. we always used to fantasize about a "what if" ... what if you could get everyone in the world to send you a penny...!!

Ok world.. send me a penny <g>


04-23-2002, 01:48 PM
Has anyone figured a way to make the web pay other than selling stuff on it? I was one of those dot com guys that spent millions of inverster dollars for a company that never made a cent. Like many otheres when the bubble burst, I found myself looking for work. The web is a great way to deliver what we call "content" but I dont know many who make any money at it. That is unless you are Micheal Dell and sell something.

I am not going to mess with a good thing. I love aafo and hope it is always free. If at some point there were a chance of aafo going away or becoming a pay site, Id pay.

More $.02


04-24-2002, 09:32 AM
Looks like they are one of the sites making money:D
I couldnt get in.