Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

[SkyvanDelta]

Since I won't claim to know a lot about this, perhaps someone who does will help me understand.

What are the different size radial engines on the various Unlimiteds and how are they different, (in general of course), are they the stock motor, a transplant... Can someone point out the differences, ie cubic inches, rows of cylinders, manufacturer, degree of difficulty in working on them, parts availablity, used on different aircraft...

I don't know if this has been discussed in the past. If it has, perhaps you can include the link to the thread.

[mayday51]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Skyvan,

It could take quite a bit of bandwidth to even start to explain the engines. Most teams have something posted on the web (either a site or written about them) which give base engine info (what's in it).

For a start on radial engines (good reference too) try :

http://www.enginehistory.org/

some serious information there.

Look through the older pages on this forum, there have been quite
some discussion and information laid out for us.

.....gotta do your homework !

[flyingjibus]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Short answer:

In the field you will see

Pratt and whitney 2800 (corsairs, I think the focke wolfe, Steadfast, Tigercats)
Wright 3350 (sea furies, Rare Bear)
Pratt and Whitney 4360 (super corsair, Furias and Dreadnaught)

Nothing out there had either the 3350 or 4360 as its original designed powerplant.

[Tibia]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Nothing out there had either the 3350 or 4360 as its original designed powerplant.

F2G corsairs were designed with the 4360

[Propellerhead]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

That particular Flug Werk FW-190 has an R-2800. Most others have the Russian ASh-82.

Tigercats have R-2800s.

Steadfast has a P&W R-2000.

[440_Magnum]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Currently raced radials:

Wright R-1820- stocker on any T-28 that runs with the unlimiteds.

P&W R-1830. Stock on the FM-2 'Air Biscuit'

P&W R2000. Transplant onto the Yak 'Steadfast.'

P&W R-2800. Stock on Bearcats, Tigercats, Corsairs. Transplant onto the Sea Fury 'Argonaut' and the Yak 'Czech Mate.'

Wright R-3350. Stock on any Skyraider that shows up. Transplant onto most "Super Stock" Sea Furies like 'Riff Raff,' 'Spirit of Texas,' Pardue's Fury, etc. Also run in highly modified/hybrid-ized form in 'Rare Bear' and 'September Fury.'

P&W R-4360. Stock on the F2G Corsairs, transplanted onto 'Super Corsair,' 'Dreadnought,' and 'Furias.' The latter two are very lightly modified (at least the modifications anyone will TALK about are mild- IIRC, a fixed blower drive ratio instead of 2-speed and very little else).

I *think* that's all the radial models you'll see running this year. It used to be common to see Sea Furies running with their stock Bristol Centaurus, but I can't remember the last time one raced in that configuration, and not all that many are even flying the Centaurus as non-racers these days.

[Race5]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Currently raced radials:

Wright R-1820- stocker on any T-28 that runs with the unlimiteds.

P&W R-1830. Stock on the FM-2 'Air Biscuit'

P&W R2000. Transplant onto the Yak 'Steadfast.'

P&W R-2800. Stock on Bearcats, Tigercats, Corsairs. Transplant onto the Sea Fury 'Argonaut' and the Yak 'Czech Mate.'

Wright R-3350. Stock on any Skyraider that shows up. Transplant onto most "Super Stock" Sea Furies like 'Riff Raff,' 'Spirit of Texas,' Pardue's Fury, etc. Also run in highly modified/hybrid-ized form in 'Rare Bear' and 'September Fury.'

P&W R-4360. Stock on the F2G Corsairs, transplanted onto 'Super Corsair,' 'Dreadnought,' and 'Furias.' The latter two are very lightly modified (at least the modifications anyone will TALK about are mild- IIRC, a fixed blower drive ratio instead of 2-speed and very little else).

I *think* that's all the radial models you'll see running this year. It used to be common to see Sea Furies running with their stock Bristol Centaurus, but I can't remember the last time one raced in that configuration, and not all that many are even flying the Centaurus as non-racers these days.

When the Sanders finish 914 it will have a Centaurus and they plan to race it albeit in the bronze, and not pushed hard. Those have to be some of the best sounding radials ever produced IMHO.

[W J Pearce]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Just to add because I did not see it mentioned:
Wright R-1820: Single row 9 cylinder first run in 1931.
P&W R-1830: two row 14 cylinder first run in 1932.
P&W R-2000: two row 14 cylinder first run in 1939.
P&W R-2800: two row 18 cylinder first run in 1937.
Wright R-3350: two row 18 cylinder first run in 1937.
P&W R-4360: four row 28 cylinder first run in 1941.

Others:
RR Merlin (Packard V-1650): 12 cylinder liquid cooled V first run in 1933.
Allison V-1710: 12 cylinder liquid cooled V first run in 1930.
RR Griffon (2240 cu in): 12 cylinder liquid cooled V first run 1939.

And for fun:
Bristol Centaurs (3270 cu in): two row sleeve valve 18 cylinder first run in 1938.

[T. Adams]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Just to add because I did not see it mentioned:
Wright R-1820: Single row 9 cylinder first run in 1931.
P&W R-1830: two row 14 cylinder first run in 1932.
P&W R-2000: two row 14 cylinder first run in 1942.
P&W R-2800: two row 18 cylinder first run in 1937.
Wright R-3350: two row 18 cylinder first run in 1937.
P&W R-4360: four row 28 cylinder first run in 1941.

Others:
RR Merlin (Packard V-1650): 12 cylinder liquid cooled V first run in 1933.
Allison V-1710: 12 cylinder liquid cooled V first run in 1930.
RR Griffon (2240 cu in): 12 cylinder liquid cooled V first run 1939.

And for fun:
Bristol Centaurs (3270 cu in): two row sleeve valve 18 cylinder first run in 1938.

Geek.

[ShermB]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Do I need to make him a hat, too, to match Speedy and ScottY?

[Hawkeye]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Currently raced radials:

Wright R-1820- stocker on any T-28 that runs with the unlimiteds.

P&W R-1830. Stock on the FM-2 'Air Biscuit'

P&W R2000. Transplant onto the Yak 'Steadfast.'

P&W R-2800. Stock on Bearcats, Tigercats, Corsairs. Transplant onto the Sea Fury 'Argonaut' and the Yak 'Czech Mate.'

Wright R-3350. Stock on any Skyraider that shows up. Transplant onto most "Super Stock" Sea Furies like 'Riff Raff,' 'Spirit of Texas,' Pardue's Fury, etc. Also run in highly modified/hybrid-ized form in 'Rare Bear' and 'September Fury.'

P&W R-4360. Stock on the F2G Corsairs, transplanted onto 'Super Corsair,' 'Dreadnought,' and 'Furias.' The latter two are very lightly modified (at least the modifications anyone will TALK about are mild- IIRC, a fixed blower drive ratio instead of 2-speed and very little else).

I *think* that's all the radial models you'll see running this year. It used to be common to see Sea Furies running with their stock Bristol Centaurus, but I can't remember the last time one raced in that configuration, and not all that many are even flying the Centaurus as non-racers these days.

A slight correction,
F4F Wildcats were powered by a P&W 1830's FM-2 Wildcat's had a Wright 1820-56S

[V1670]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Just to add because I did not see it mentioned:
Wright R-1820: Single row 9 cylinder first run in 1931.
P&W R-1830: two row 14 cylinder first run in 1932.
P&W R-2000: two row 14 cylinder first run in 1939.
P&W R-2800: two row 18 cylinder first run in 1937.
Wright R-3350: two row 18 cylinder first run in 1937.
P&W R-4360: four row 28 cylinder first run in 1941.

Others:
RR Merlin (Packard V-1650): 12 cylinder liquid cooled V first run in 1933.
Allison V-1710: 12 cylinder liquid cooled V first run in 1930.
RR Griffon (2240 cu in): 12 cylinder liquid cooled V first run 1939.

And for fun:
Bristol Centaurs (3270 cu in): two row sleeve valve 18 cylinder first run in 1938.

Great info. Question: what was the motor in the Supermarine S6B? I thought it was bigger than a Merlin and more associated with a Griffon, and ran back in the mid-30's

[race9]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Great info. Question: what was the motor in the Supermarine S6B? I thought it was bigger than a Merlin and more associated with a Griffon, and ran back in the mid-30's

That was called the R-12, wasn't it?

[Propellerhead]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Great info. Question: what was the motor in the Supermarine S6B? I thought it was bigger than a Merlin and more associated with a Griffon, and ran back in the mid-30's

A small suggestion for you: www.google.com

Try that. It's fabulous.

[W J Pearce]

Re: Radial Engines on the Unlimiteds, differences?

Great info. Question: what was the motor in the Supermarine S6B? I thought it was bigger than a Merlin and more associated with a Griffon, and ran back in the mid-30's

Phed, if he used google then I would actually have to do real work instead of answering questions at one of my favorite distractions, AAFO.

I might butcher this but.....

The engine that was in the S6 (A), and S6B was simply the Rolls Royce "R". It was the same displacement as the Griffon (same bore and stroke), but had nothing else in common. The R was first run in 1929 and the 1931 Schneider version of the engine produced 2350 hp. In testing a "sprint" version, they got the engine to produce 2800 hp but it began to rip itself apart. They derated it to 2550 hp or so and set the world speed record at 407 mph in 1931.

The Griffon really had no direct ancestry to the R other than the knowledge gained. In other words the Griffon was not a further development of the R. Experience from the S6 series and R was directly applied to the Spitfire and the Merlin. But neither are further developments of the former.

I think it went something like this: The Curtiss D-12 power racers so surprised the British in 1923 Schneider race that Rolls-Royce was thought to be behind the times. As a response, they developed the Kestrel. The Kestrel was enlarged to make the Buzzard. The R was built off the Buzzard as strictly a racing engine. The Griffon I then evolved from the Buzzard / R but was a test engine only. What went into production was a Griffon II which had little in common with the previous engines.

Back to the Kestrel, from it was developed the Peregrine and the PV-12. The Peregrine was basically dropped after a small run and more effort was put behind the PV-12 (Private Venture 12 cylinder), which was a RR funded project with no official support. The PV-12 was showing signs that it was the real deal and it was given official support, becoming the Merlin.