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First time Juke
01-14-2008, 08:09 AM
I was wondering if anyone ever tried ? They seem to produce a lot more hps / cubic inches.

Cri Cri ( world's smallest 2 engine aircraft ) had 2 x 9 hp two strokes in the initial model.

http://flight.cz/cricri/english/

Peashooter
01-14-2008, 10:24 AM
Juke: You need a RR Crecy! Peas

http://www.stobbe.dk/library/engines/rolls_royce/rolls.asp

First time Juke
01-14-2008, 10:48 AM
I just "designed" or I drew 3-views ready for a plane that could go after Arnold Ar-5 record. I was thinking about powering it with two small 2-strokes.

I think Crecy was for this project;

http://renaissance-research.com/projects/

BTW: Peas...do ya know what this is ?

http://tbirds.hp.infoseek.co.jp/renoa32_l.JPG

Peashooter
01-14-2008, 11:53 AM
That's Dave Ronnenberg's Berkut -- sweet dude!

Bob
01-14-2008, 05:02 PM
Two strokes have been used before, even 2 stroke diesels.

I found a couple links.
I guess there are some made for planes. Below is a great read about 2 stroke diesels for aircraft with up to 300hp for an air cooled 8 cyl two row radial.

Zoche Aero-Diesels, a German company developing radial aircooled two-stroke diesel engines, claims that its engine has been refined to the point where the engine delivers 58 percent more torque per liter of displacement than does a modern TCM IO-520 engine.


http://www.zoche.de/

http://www.deltahawkengines.com/

nothing big out there yet

Bill Marsh
01-14-2008, 08:15 PM
Whats the deal with that flat 12 cyl diesel tu-stroke being developed for te sport racer guys.

any chatter?

Bmarsh

AirDOGGe
01-14-2008, 08:32 PM
The hard part about trying a 2-stroke engine in an unlimited racer or sport class is finding a suitable powerplant and aviation-qualified parts for it.

There's not a lot of opposed-8, V-8 or V-12 two-cycle engines out there on the market large enough to do the job, and using several smaller engines just means a lot more parts to potentially break at the worst possible time.

4-strokes have made a lot of advancements in catching up in the H.P. department in the last 10-20 years, run cooler and get greater range per pound of fuel too.

Arctic Cat
01-14-2008, 09:56 PM
I don't know much about the diesels but these guys make the baddest 2 strokes for snowmobiles

http://www.psipowerinc.com/34696.htm

The biggest issue with these type of engine is that the tuned exhaust pipes that help them make the incredible power numebers are larger than the engine itself. 2 strokes also have no pressurized oil systems, lubrication is either injected or mixed in with the fuel, longenvity of engine parts are not near what you get in a 4 stroke. They do however make one heck of a fun ride!

An engine that is getting crazy power numbers is the Suzuki 1300cc Hayabus motor that has been turboed, putting out over 500 hp. These guys liked the engine so much they doubled it! http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm

And listen to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YAFMZyBPI4

440_Magnum
01-15-2008, 11:57 AM
2 strokes also have no pressurized oil systems, lubrication is either injected or mixed in with the fuel, longenvity of engine parts are not near what you get in a 4 stroke.


That is not *necessarily* true. Yes, most commercial gasoline 2-strokes use the crankcase for pre-compression and thus have to use a fuel/oil mixture to lubricate (by splash- yuck!) the moving parts. But the 2-stroke *cycle* itself doesn't have to be accomplished that way, and in fact no common 2-stroke diesels do so. They all have mechanical superchargers to pressurize the intake air (so that crankcase pre-compression with reed valves is not needed), inlet ports in the lower cylinder wall, and exhaust valves (Detroit diesel, EMD, etc) or another set of ports in opposed-piston designs (Fairbanks-Morse, Napier Deltic). A gasoline engine on the same architecture could theoretically be built... BUT, the big problem is intake/exhaust charge dilution. Diesels are much better suited to 2-stroke operation than gasoline engines because you can use the pressurized intake air to thorougly purge all the exhaust while the intake and exhaust ports are both open, and then fuel is only admitted AFTER the ports are closed. In fact, 2-stroke diesel superchargers are usually sized a few percent larger than the volumetric minimum so that they will "over blow" the cylinder (blow a bit of the fresh air all the way through and out the exhaust to insure that as little exhaust gas remains in the cylinder as possible). That's part of what gives Detroit Diesel 2-strokes that unique (and annoying to some people...) screechy exhaust sound. Since a gasoline engine has to have its fuel charge injected before the compression stroke starts, you can't over-blow it quite as completely, and 4-stroke designs are inherently more efficient.

Bob
01-17-2008, 07:26 AM
Here is a vid of cri cri I found on where else? YouTube.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PlV8WJ6N3nU

ebutner
01-17-2008, 10:05 AM
New class of racing at Reno? LOL

First time Juke
01-17-2008, 10:32 AM
Here are more Cri Cri vids; http://flight.cz/cricri/english/cri-cri-videos-movies.php

Those snowmobile 995 ccm engines on this my TWEEDY BYRD..would make it go beyond mach 1.0 ! ( designed for the 100 ccm small two cylinder boxers with some enhancing .....420 USD a piece).

Tweedy Byrd is over 2 feet shorter than Cri Cri and spanning 2/3 feet less.

I would like to get this built someday by professionals...I am making a model of it ( first small and initially 1/3 scale ). Anyone interested of this fast plane with new kinda solutions...please PM me ! Blue Foam...any comments ?

rgds,

Juke

First time Juke
01-17-2008, 11:00 AM
New class of racing at Reno? LOL


Why not ?

:rolleyes:

ebutner
01-17-2008, 11:48 AM
Just make laps around the home pylon.

First time Juke
01-17-2008, 12:01 PM
Well excuse me. I tought this was a swell idea.

A real POD-RACER ! :rolleyes: 40 hp and 310 lbs takeoff weight

Racer with under $ 10 000 budget...now I get it...a trainer for the real racer...right ?!

I think I need a beer too ! :beerchug:

Magdrop
01-17-2008, 03:31 PM
Juke, Dont get upset by the nay sayers. Just go for it and leave them in the dust. Who knows this could lead to a whole new racing event all over the country. I would be interested in something like this on the east coast.

ebutner
01-17-2008, 03:43 PM
I think it's a a cool idea. Don't need much room for the coarse. Would be easy for the fans to see the whole race.

Skyracer
01-17-2008, 04:04 PM
And they would be really easy to takeoff-fly-land in the wind (any wind)...NOT!

Why do I have this vison of an angry pack of bumblebees circling the pylons?

:)

ebutner
01-17-2008, 04:07 PM
Good thing it's never windy at Reno.

Bob
01-17-2008, 05:00 PM
Nope, always sunny, warm, clear and calm weather in reno.....................

First time Juke
01-18-2008, 05:31 AM
Juke, Dont get upset by the nay sayers. Just go for it and leave them in the dust. Who knows this could lead to a whole new racing event all over the country. I would be interested in something like this on the east coast.


Thanks for the warm comments.

And what colour would your prefer your racer to be ?

Seriously;

I don't think this kinda very economical twin would take away any interested folks from air racing anywhere...just on the contrary could bring more people around it and work like go-karts in F-1 car racing and bring more potential good pilots for the race as experienced pilots ( and AF and commercial airliners etc ! ). Not just spectators.

If you order one it has no liability on neither side, but I'd be interested to know if there is potential to start making them ?

Let's say a plane with retracts would cost " ready to fly " 60 000 USD and as a kit 32 000 USD ( with engines included )..mow many would be interested ( building time 300 hours ) ?

Top speed at 180 mph...and excellent flying qualities ( we aim to this only ). Take off and landing from any 250 yard long grass field ( STOL caracteristics were another design aim ) and 200 yard long hard surfaced field.


rgds,

Juke

First time Juke
01-24-2008, 09:54 AM
Just make laps around the home pylon.

Small ships have been around before !

Here is a salute to the late great Evel the Knievel !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dldtY9ZbqYs&feature=related

Here is his jump at Snake River; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsq3dWTrRWA

I am actually surprised a plane ( a twin ) with 120-140 lbs empty weight does not excite anyone ? Especially when engines are 500 usd a piece and lumber at 1000 usd. From plans this kinda kite would be possibly less than 3 000 USD.

Here is the intented engine; http://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5734

Skyracer
01-24-2008, 01:04 PM
I am actually surprised a plane ( a twin ) with 120-140 lbs empty weight does not excite anyone ? Especially when engines are 500 usd a piece and lumber at 1000 usd. From plans this kinda kite would be possibly less than 3 000 USD.

Here is the intented engine; http://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5734Something about flying around with a 7 Lb, 9.5 HP @ 7500 RPM "toy" engine on each side sort of quenches my excitement. "Kites" should be flown at the end of a string. :rolleyes:

Lockheed Bob
01-24-2008, 10:13 PM
Sounds like a fun idea Juke,all of us can't afford a highly modified race plane. Most of todays NASCAR drivers started in go-carts. Not so long ago the Wright Bros.only went 120'.

First time Juke
01-25-2008, 07:07 AM
Something about flying around with a 7 Lb, 9.5 HP @ 7500 RPM "toy" engine on each side sort of quenches my excitement. "Kites" should be flown at the end of a string. :rolleyes:

Yeah but is with just normal muffler and gas.

I get figure 208 mph for top speed @ 14 000 rpm using methanol and nitro and tuned pipes.

It would make it the fastest plane in under 661 lbs FAI gategory ( beating dominating AR-5 ).

Equipped with a recovery chute it would be safe to race too. :thumbsup:

Skyracer
01-25-2008, 07:56 AM
I get figure 208 mph for top speed @ 14 000 rpm using methanol and nitro and tuned pipes.:thumbsup:Show me the numbers that got you that figure!

First time Juke
01-25-2008, 08:03 AM
Show me the numbers that got you that figure!

I also need 20/16 prop instead the factory recommendation 28/10.

Power to weight ratio would be at par with stock Mustang ( P-51D ).

It is an approximation..cannot have a presice calculation for it...we don't yet even have the plane.

This is the goal of the design...retracts in an aeroplane roughly 70% size of the Cri Cri...using same or equivalent rated engines ( 44 hp => 2x22 hp ).

I try to come up with better calculations soon..okay ?!

Bob
01-25-2008, 10:24 AM
Juke,
If you have a motor that spins that fast, why have the added weight of a reduction gearbox, use one of those unducted/supersonic fan/prop. gizmos. They like to be spun fast. And it wouldnt be racing without alot of noise right? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propfan

Arctic Cat
01-25-2008, 07:09 PM
I'll have some of what he's smokin' please!

Juke, I know its the middle of the long cold winter and your bored but give me a freakin' break. Your not going to build a plane with an empty weight of 150 lbs and a gross weight of over 300 thats going to carry anybody safely around anything at over 200 mph, with a model airplane engine of 10 hp, even on fuel and with a pipe!

Race5
01-25-2008, 07:32 PM
Nothing says "Hold my beer and watch this!" like racing light weight 2-smoke powered "aircraft".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzSjj64XpLI

First time Juke
01-28-2008, 05:38 AM
I'll have some of what he's smokin' please!

Juke, I know its the middle of the long cold winter and your bored but give me a freakin' break. Your not going to build a plane with an empty weight of 150 lbs and a gross weight of over 300 thats going to carry anybody safely around anything at over 200 mph, with a model airplane engine of 10 hp, even on fuel and with a pipe!


I dunno what you referring at, but Cri Cri already weighs 145 lbs empty. This is smaller and Cri Cri flew 35 years ago..techniques have developed a lot since. I say at least 180 mph and take off from harvested field even.

First time Juke
01-28-2008, 07:00 AM
Juke,
If you have a motor that spins that fast, why have the added weight of a reduction gearbox, use one of those unducted/supersonic fan/prop. gizmos. They like to be spun fast. And it wouldnt be racing without alot of noise right? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propfan

Something like this on the front end of my supposed design ?

I think I need that type of system if I wanna go 500 mph ?!

Noise is good in racer..but does 180 mph sound too slow.

Bob
01-28-2008, 07:47 AM
Something like this on the front end of my supposed design ?

I think I need that type of system if I wanna go 500 mph ?!

Noise is good in racer..but does 180 mph sound too slow.

It will work at slower speeds to, the prop dosnt care what the ias is, its just designed to spin alot faster than a regular prop. and its a small diameter so you even get less drag. You just need a motor that can spin it at the speeds they are desined at. There was a biplane at the races this year that was supposed to use one, with just two blades, unfortunatly he crashed and passed. The crash wasnt from the prop not working, his motor wasnt running properly.

First time Juke
01-28-2008, 08:35 AM
I think I just need 18/18 props instead of the 28/10 and some 12 000 rpm ( with tuned pipes and nitromethane ). When a plane is lot smaller than a BEDE-5 ( = almost same lenght and span with Cri Cri ) I need also a lot smaller props in a twinengine aircarft ( and lotsa balls to fly it ! ).

I dunno 18/18 prop looks ridiculously small...22/14 and 12 000 rpm would yield 160 mph ( VNE also ? )...that is not bad is it...looks convincing in a 3-view here on my other tube. Is it badly supersonic still on prop tips ?

I get 189 mph top speed with 22/16 at 12 500 mph and some 210 mph VNE. With VNE I am referring to a speed where the prop starts to works as a brake. I guess it is wise not to design a plane to faster than that !

If that is AOK then it is the goal ( Lamborghini top speed was the initial goal ).

First time Juke
01-28-2008, 10:36 AM
I know by experience that a prop turns approx. 10% faster in the air than on the ground so to reach 190-200 mph I need 20-30 hp / engine to turn these props.

First time Juke
01-28-2008, 12:32 PM
..and now gets really spooky...10% to that 520 mph gives 572 mph !

Watch out Rare Bear ( please tell me what is wrong here ) ! It is the thrust 48 lbs per engine is not enuf..I'd need 120 lbs per engine at least right ?

I checked in the net that Honda RS 125 ccm output can be 62 hp....

....even 100 ccm engines can have 22 hp.

---------------------------

Chart 3 ( second ) clears the problem..212 lbs of thrust looks plausible right ? That 28 inch dia prop looks enermous in a plane this small.

First time Juke
01-28-2008, 01:40 PM
Here is the ARNOLD AR-5 record setter !

http://www.ar-5.com/

If I had 30 hp per engine ( and least 2 x 125 ccm engines or nitrous in 100 ccm) I think this kite if well built and aerodynamically refined/studied and most of all flown by excellent pilot could be pretty close.

AR-5 had 65 hp engine.

------------

Here is a chart ( 4 ) that explains what Tweedy could do with existing paraglider 100 ccm 22 hp engines with regular gas !

Bob
01-28-2008, 08:23 PM
Juke,
You need to find and buy this book.
Two Stroke Tuners Handbook by Gordon Jennings. Its the bible for two stroke engines, this guy is amazing. I met him way back when my brother was racing ow41 and ow42 yamahas. An amazing man.

First time Juke
01-30-2008, 09:02 AM
Juke,
You need to find and buy this book.
Two Stroke Tuners Handbook by Gordon Jennings. Its the bible for two stroke engines, this guy is amazing. I met him way back when my brother was racing ow41 and ow42 yamahas. An amazing man.


I believe you Bob.

I made a RACER version and specs for a SUPER TWEEDY !

1:1 power to weight ratio ( hp/kg ) should bring it to where no man has been before.

3 cylinder row or 4 cylinder boxer 2 strokes 250-300 ccm with tuned pipes should yield 110 hp each ( using methanol and nitro ) and 70 hp when using regular gas ( latter for a 2 seater aerobatic trainer ).

Bob, if you make the engines I will provide the planes..and let's make a factory to manufacture both.

rgds,

Juke

First time Juke
01-31-2008, 12:03 PM
the 300 ccm 4-cylinder boxer is already here;

http://forgues-research.com/page8.html



Here is the Tweedy speed chart for it too:

Box A35
02-02-2008, 09:45 AM
Just go big and get a couple of these 530+ hp snowmobile motors.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpoEjY7KDdo

First time Juke
02-04-2008, 04:12 AM
Just go big and get a couple of these 530+ hp snowmobile motors.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpoEjY7KDdo


In fact over the weekend I made small 3-d model of wood and I realized the plane is way to small ( I followed missleading data in wingarea ) and now the plane is circa 12 ft long and 14 ft span ( previous was 9 ft and 15 ft ) and in fact with a straight wing that engine might be doable with wingtanks ( as a P U S H E R ) !

I think there are too many hp:s...or we need a 5-6 blader prop ( to increase the thrust and making the prop smaller to avoid the supersonic propspeeds ). The PSI 995 ccm at 225 hp would go very fast too..with methanol and nitrous it could be doubled.

This new version gear arrangement will allow a pusherversion to be made..and these charts ( Case 1 and 2 ) refer to this very low drag coefficient pusher only. I think we only need a man like Eric Ahlstrom to work on this to make it real and someone to fund it !

If my mind doesn't play a trick on me I think I did solve the problem of the directional stability problem ( experienced by mr. Penney with Learfan 2000 ) with a new kinda fuselage ( and engine cooling airflow ) as well.

If I am not mistaken a direct drive from engine could be used on the prop via shaft.

See yourself data for the engine and props;

First time Juke
02-06-2008, 08:48 AM
This has been developed for UAV:s

http://www.evo-engines.com/products/results.php?family=12

50 hp at 15 kilos..and roughly 500 ccm.

New Tweedy could do 250 mph with those for certain.

First time Juke
02-07-2008, 03:12 AM
Does it really exist ?!

I ask this because many people seem to take me as an idiot at least here in Finland about this 2-stroke thing.

Regular gas costs here 8 USD a gallon. Would you be concerned and seeking a really cheap way to go from point A to B at 250 mph at these gas prizes..I am a bit concerned that none here seems to be.

rgds,

Juke

First time Juke
02-08-2008, 04:25 AM
I just want with certain sadness inform you that this THRUST HP program that calculates speeds and horsepowers in this thread is inaccurate..it seems to be true in .15 - 0.3 size engines ( models ), but when I went and placed Dago Red prop into the program and wanted 517 mph it told that I need 27 440 horsepowers.

What it actually means is that TWEEDY can go lot faster with less hp:s as does Dago Red in reality !

so be informed,

rgds,

Juke :thumbsup:

mayday51
02-09-2008, 12:50 AM
Juke,

Having spent 35+ years in karting,I have built and broken hundreds
of engines (if not thousands).

Yes we can get near 45hp from a 125cc engine for about an hour of mixed load,mixed throttle use.
.....and 23-29 hp from 100cc for the same conditions
(air cooled....both cases)

I for one would not want to be higher than I care to fall with an engine trying to self destruct at 16,200rpm. (just over peak hp revs)

Please take a look at existing sport and ultralight power plants,
and consider the weights vs the power vs service life.
Not much return there.

There is a "new" wankel water cooled peice being built and is now comercially available "for karting" (no nat'l or int'l class yet) that
just may be closer to small aircraft needs.

An internet search should get you to the specs for it,and let you view lots of 2 stroke stuff to help balance your concept choices.
......true information (facts) are the best base to build from.

...........keep the dreams......keep your pencil sharp......
there are treasures hidden in them.

Dash
02-09-2008, 01:50 AM
There is also (or was, haven't checked lately) a wankel rotary being developed in Daytona Beach, Florida. The prototype was on a Piper Arrow and in the 180-200hp range and I think differing powers were expected to come along. Sounded neat.

First time Juke
02-14-2008, 05:51 AM
Juke,

Having spent 35+ years in karting,I have built and broken hundreds
of engines (if not thousands).

Yes we can get near 45hp from a 125cc engine for about an hour of mixed load,mixed throttle use.
.....and 23-29 hp from 100cc for the same conditions
(air cooled....both cases)

--------- snip -----------------

...........keep the dreams......keep your pencil sharp......
there are treasures hidden in them.


I guess I have to come down with my dream...

Taking 45 hp outa those small 150 ccm engines would be like sitting on a time bomb ( not to mention 70 hp ).

How about those 500 ccm 50 hp and 15 kilo engines ?

---------------------------------------------------

Those 17 hp 3,4 kilo engines attract me because they are 1299 USd a piece ( 900 € ) and I could get for a small pilot as low wing loading as 28 kg/m2 ( if the lifting body proves to be as succesfull as I figured ).

This enclosed side view doesn't tell much, but believe it or not..I could be able to fit a man behind the pilot seat laying on side and knees bent..the wing loading could then be 44 kg/m2.

Everybody tells me this won't fly anywhere near 200 mph gear retracted, but I guarantee this has 1/3 of the drag of the Cri Cri that did go 107 mph with 2 + 9 hp engines.

What is your educated guess on this matter ?

rgds,

Juke

Race5
02-14-2008, 09:06 AM
There is a "new" wankel water cooled peice being built and is now comercially available "for karting".

Sorry to thread jack, but have you had the chance to drive an Aixro yet? If not, don't, they are addicting. I am trying to figure out a way to get one for an unlimited laydown now. $$$$$$$$$$

mayday51
02-15-2008, 02:00 AM
Sorry to thread jack, but have you had the chance to drive an Aixro yet? If not, don't, they are addicting. I am trying to figure out a way to get one for an unlimited laydown now. $$$$$$$$$$


.......pulls from"dead idle and just doesn't stop pulling!".........

.....I have to limit my seat time......did my neck in a couple times too many......but I had to check it out......

......it does work !......real eye opener !...smooth,smooth,smooth.

First time Juke
02-20-2008, 08:14 AM
AIXRO is that the Wankel engine brand ?

Reno_Steve
02-21-2008, 06:10 PM
That kart Wankel engine sounds like a good engine for an unlimited RC pylon racer. I am not sure whether it would fit within the rules.
I always feel with full size air racing reliability is the main thing, as you dont want to skimp when a pilot is involved.
Wankel engines are quite reliable for short periods of time and normally do not fail in the same disastorous way as other engines.
The seals can be a problem for long term use but for racing this is not a problem. Wankels always used to do well at the Le Mans 24hr car race and I was at the TT race on the Isle of Man when a Norton Wankel won the main race.

Reno_Steve
02-21-2008, 06:13 PM
I think the Norton Wankel was financed by the British Ministry of Defence for use in unmanned aircraft.
Maybe someone can find out what problems if any were experienced.

First time Juke
02-25-2008, 01:13 AM
That AIXRO is 300 ccm and weighs 15 kilos and produces only 41 hp...whereas this is the same weight and produces 50 hp..and is 500 ccm.

http://www.evo-engines.com/images/models/456ee1.jpg

First time Juke
02-25-2008, 03:06 AM
Here is the AIXRO engine data ;

http://www.nova-racing.com/nova_gb/index.htm

Technical Data

Specification: Type 4-stroke 1-disc rotary engine
Power: 31 kW ata / 7800 rpm
Weight: ~ 15 kg
Drehmoment: 47 Nm bei 4500 1/min
Chamber volume: 294 ccm
Max. engine speed: 10.300 1/min
Clutch: 2-disc centrifugal
Drive: 1/2 " chain type 428
Ignition: magnet ignition with variable timing
Housing: water cooled, partially Nicasil coated
Housing end plates: water cooled, special alloy

AirDOGGe
02-25-2008, 11:59 AM
What about the little 2-rotor Wankels Moller came up with for his hovering aerocar? Those engines were suppose to be fairly powerful for their size and weight. Are they still available for purchase separately?

Bill Marsh
02-25-2008, 12:33 PM
GOD i hate math !!!!!

any wayz , what is the relationship between kW and BHP

is it .74 kW = 1 BHP

or 1 kW = .74 BHP

--------------------

BMarsh


plz.... no 4th order equasions jazz

Skyracer
02-25-2008, 01:15 PM
1 HP = .7456999 KW

Race5
02-25-2008, 05:38 PM
The Aixro is sold in at least two different varieties. The one I have driven was the fuel injected version that combined with an aftermarket exhaust had pulled almost 60HP on a dyno. The thing that has the karters interested in them is they will go a hundred plus hours TBO. My mod 125 shifter gets a top end every 45 minutes, and a fresh bottom end every 20 hrs.

First time Juke
02-26-2008, 02:04 AM
What about the little 2-rotor Wankels Moller came up with for his hovering aerocar? Those engines were suppose to be fairly powerful for their size and weight. Are they still available for purchase separately?

I think it is called Möller Skycar..and I know a man who has finacially supported the project for years...I will look for the data on that.

I think Skycar uses 8 engines and 4 can be out and it still flies....not necessarily 500km/h as it ought to at full throttle.


Here Rotamotor Wankel; http://www.moller.com/engi.htm

It would give this small twin 520 mph top speed and more reliable one engine qualities at 370 mph..using bigger dia prop ( giving more thrust ).

Unless it weighs more than 25 kilos.

Second chart when 150 hp is the output. Unfortunately rotary engine is not piston engine..so no new record is valid in that class.

AirDOGGe
02-26-2008, 11:10 PM
Here's the motor specs and some info about availability from Freedom Motors:

========================================
What Rotapower models will be available?

The Rotapower engine is being offered by our sister company, Freedom Motors, in two sizes initially; a single-rotor 650cc (75 hp) and a twin-rotor 1300cc (150 hp) version. Details are available at www.Freedom-Motors.com .

3.2. Do you have a Freedom Motor I can buy for testing or can I special order one for my own projects?

Yes, we have licensed production of the Rotapower engine to Freedom Motors and they are taking orders for the 650cc and 1300cc models now. See www.Freedom-Motors.com for more information.

3.3. Can I purchase Rotapower engines for homebuilt aircraft?

Due to liability concerns, MI doesn't plan to initially sell engines for aircraft. A number of interested parties plan to market marine engines with aviation conversion kits and thereby assume the liability. When the engine becomes publicly available, information on Rotapower distributors will be posted on our web page.

3.4. Can I put a Rotapower Engine in my car?

The current model is not intended for use in automotive applications.

3.5. The page listing Rotapower Engine Performance Advantages states "power output/weight greater than 2 HP/lb.," yet the gasoline engine comparison lists the 150 HP Rotapower engine with a weight of 135 lbs. Why?

We have achieved 2.5 HP/lb. in the lab with our special high performance model. The 150 HP version is a de-rated marine engine. This number is close to that for a production engine -- in an application for long life.

First time Juke
02-27-2008, 04:43 AM
Excellent link...ROTAPOWER rulez.

Here are some rough estimates for Tweedy with that 75 hp/80 lbs engine. ;)

First time Juke
02-29-2008, 10:29 AM
As peculiar as it may sound...the EVO 500 ccm 15 kilo 50 hp 2-stroke engine gives equal power to weight ratio with Rotapower wankel..and is air cooled.

It is 0.59 hp/kg. In par with P-51H. Bigger is better, but so is TWEEDY now it can house 6 ft 4 in pilot and is still the world's smallest Twin !

Anyone interested to do overseas business with this ? :D :)

Bill Marsh
02-29-2008, 02:57 PM
Where is the N1PPVX* ?



* number one pee pee vent exit (15 hours flight time) ouch!! :sad:

Bmarsh

First time Juke
03-02-2008, 01:47 AM
It has also 10-12 litre tanks in nacelles so altogether 75 liters..and consumes 5-6 liters per hour..so somewhere 11-14 hours the flying time..2-strokes do consume a lot and if tuned it may only fly 2 hours with the nacelletanks alone !

AAFO_WSagar
03-02-2008, 02:14 AM
Hey Jukka.. !

Hope all is well with you and yours!

Question to you and those of you participating in this thread... Would you all be offended if I moved it to the more appropriate forum "Air Race Designer" ???

I realize, about 90% of the threads in the Air Racin' forum are about 90% Off Topic... but I gotta start somewhere!

Lemme know, I'll move/copy it. If you guys want it here, it will stay here!

Thanks for dreaming and sharing!

:thumbsup:

AirDOGGe
03-02-2008, 09:02 PM
Sounds fine moving it to a more appropriate forum room. Go for it.

What if there was a "non-racing topics" forum room? Nothing specific like the designer's room, but a place for more miscellaneous aircraft hoo-hah. Place it just below the racing topics room link too, for more visibility.

First time Juke
03-03-2008, 07:21 AM
One for Bill Marsh..I heard he is one heck of a pilot !

US export model..heh heh !

Martin Hollmann commented it is cute...he recommended me to get a good aerodynamicist on the project..anyone interested ?

First time Juke
03-05-2008, 12:46 AM
Hey Jukka.. !

Hope all is well with you and yours!

--------------snip---------------

Thanks for dreaming and sharing!

:thumbsup:


Wayner,

Have I ever prevent you from knowing my designs...you remember my very first genuiely new racer..the one that looked like diminutive Arado 234 with aft cockpit engine and pusherprop pods were in the wings operated via chains and sprockets ? That was hilarious or what ? Have you archived that thread ?

Babygirl is now 10 months old and mom is fine too.

rgds,

Juke

First time Juke
07-12-2008, 08:33 AM
Wayne and all,

Now the baby is 14 months and a week and walks and smiles cutely.

2-stroke engined partially lifting body twin tailwheel dagger looks so far like this.

Any constructive comments ? Pilot in there is 6 feet 7 in. Any bigger than that will have to customise his kite.


rgds,

Juke

First time Juke
07-21-2008, 08:18 AM
Hi !

Here is a pretty solid sounding engine for it...at 65% power it would have mileage of 147 / gallon. I estimate it might do 200 kmh at 65 % power.

http://airpowertechnologies.net/UAV_116cuin.html

I doubt the smaller engines cannot go very fast at 65% power...better mileage with more powerfull engines. Even with the 104 ccm engines it would only use 1/4 gallon in an hour ( a mere 1 lb in an hour with 65% power for one engine ).

Summa Summarum: It is pretty economical...on paper at least.

Juke

First time Juke
08-13-2008, 01:23 AM
Latest updates !

1. Cockpit size increased..better visibility and ability to move body forward in case of flat spin etc. Added austerity also increases the comfort in cockpit and moves the aerodynamical center more forward.

2. Wing is slightly bigger and more forward.

3. Nacelles are a bit smaller.

4. Safety issue is that arch in cockpit and rudders will prevent the asphalt rash of the pilot if the plane goes upside down in a rough landing.

5. Possibility to adjust the seat has been added.

Gauges and stick will be on the consoles and some meters in the arch..between the legs is the lever of the retractable gear ( and the gear compartment ).

What do you say..ready to be scrutinized by expert aerodynamists or not ?


yours truly,

Juke :beerchug:

First time Juke
08-18-2008, 04:14 AM
Here is the powerplant that the estimates for consumption and speed are based on;

http://airpowertechnologies.net/UAV_116cuin.html

I was told it cannot be right.

---------

Here are backup powerplants;

http://www.desertaircraft.com/engines_detail.php?Page=DA-150

http://www.desertaircraft.com/engines_detail.php?Page=DA-100

Last one might also give 1 GPH, but with radically reduced speed ( 70 mph ).

First time Juke
08-22-2008, 02:36 AM
Airpowertechnologies announced following:

The consumption data listed @ 65% is for the opposed twin which now has a new reed valve and a single carb and is much more fuel efficient.

AAFO_WSagar
08-22-2008, 02:47 AM
Airpowertechnologies announced following:

The consumption data listed @ 65% is for the opposed twin which now has a new reed valve and a single carb and is much more fuel efficient.
Jukka... didn't you have a little one a while ago.. ??

We want PICTURES!!

:thumbsup:

First time Juke
08-24-2008, 02:55 AM
Yes !

We have a daughter 15½ months old by now. She is pretty interesting..climbing a lot and running like a race horse around the house. She can be very loud at times too. Likes to bathe in sauna a lot.
I'd like to train her to be a great golfer but she is too young to grab the club with two hands. Have to wait till Kidz USA clubs are right size ( next summer ). She is about same age as Tiger Woods' daughter Sam.

rgds,

Juke

PS: Can you tell where I was as exchange student by her sweather ?

AAFO_WSagar
08-24-2008, 01:21 PM
I always wondered how you got introduced to our crazy part of the world!

She looks like a really happy baby!!

:thumbsup:

First time Juke
08-24-2008, 01:45 PM
Wayne,

Intoduced....well we are crazy ok...see the RED BULL flying day in Helsinki ( video );

http://www.nelonen.fi/uutisvideot/default.asp?video=5024&c=1&newpage=0

flying wing is pretty cool...at the end.

AAFO_WSagar
08-24-2008, 01:57 PM
Wayne,

Intoduced....well we are crazy ok...see the RED BULL flying day in Helsinki ( video );

http://www.nelonen.fi/uutisvideot/default.asp?video=5024&c=1&newpage=0

flying wing is pretty cool...at the end.LOL... !! :thumbsup:

First time Juke
08-25-2008, 12:51 AM
Sorry Wayne,

I was really tired at evening...I totally missed the message...you referred to the sweater. I recall Finland has been labelled as the most americanized land in Europe. Because we see all films undubbed maybe..or because there are 600 000 finns in USA....over 10% of the population ( in Finland 5.3 mio nowadays ).
Duluth is possibly most finnish city in USA...never been there though..but I certainly recommend Newport R.I...it is smallest state, but has lotsa beaches, water, lobsters and good stores etc. and very friendly people.
I was also putting up tents with Newport Tent Company around New England...greetings to Mike if he reads this ( possibly not ). Also the Americas Cup Races were held in 1980 there as I was there. Town was also loaded with heritage..huge mansions like the Breakers etc. but mostly smaller colonial style houses..with ordinary hard working honest people..whom I miss time to time.

rgds,

Juke

First time Juke
08-29-2008, 09:21 AM
I got negative answer when I applied for a state fund for Tweedy.
I think I have to bury also this project for now since it has been time consuming and response has been nonunderstanding. No use trying forward.

I have to concentrate on my "real" job; being an architect.

Thanks for everyone for their interest. I am really in awe; what is more important than a family AC that uses less gas than a car and gets you there in half the time and is less expensive to manufacture by far ?

First time Juke
08-31-2008, 08:48 AM
Here is more updated version of this GELB ( Ground Effect / Lifting Body ) project whose aim is to make really ecomical flight possible.

85 mpg is not just a dream but based on a realistic educated guess ! : )

:thumbsup:

First time Juke
11-05-2008, 07:50 PM
Due to lack of interest I desided to go for a single engine version with same economical ( gelb ) princible.

Plane will be studied first with a model and possibly a under 70 kilogram ultralite ( 3 FAI records in mind in that category ).

Making it under 70 kilos ( emptyweight ) will help a great deal since that kinda plane needs no certification nor lisence to fly it.


CS-VLA requirements in Europe can be found here;

http://www.easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/g/rg_certspecs.php#CS-VLA

( VLA = very light aircraft => mtow under 750 kg )

----------------------------------

2 seater ultralite should be under 450 kg and one seater 300 kg ( flyweight ).

----------------------------------

The intented goal of setting 3 FAI records in ultralite category would serve the purpose of getting a kickstart to the marketing of the AC. If it falls out of the ultra class then I try the distance and speed records under 300 kg category of FAI records ( these are tough to beat ).

Yesterday I made hand drawn scetches for the shock abrorbed tailskids to be used in the twin tail along with the extremely light retractable nonturning mainwheel. Skids will turn along the rudders to provide directional control under taxiing and take-off ( + landing ). Extremely small tailwheels could be used too ( 3 cm diameter ).

Plane sports also very small sweep in the wings and possibly an open cockpit or cosmic wind canopy ( + opening off sufficient part of the upper tail fuselage with it in order to bail out in emergency ).

Can anyone comment when does one need vortilons in a swept wing AC ? I see all new Vari-Ezes do need them installed.

Main reason to do these changes now where to cut down intersection drag and weight. Keep it clean as a whistle as a main goal.

First time Juke
11-12-2008, 02:07 AM
I will continue to use the one wheel main and two tailwheels.

I tought this was very original, but then I found these;

Aria ( 64 hp ):

http://www.reactionresearch.com/aircraft/aircraftindex.htm

X-15 ( mach 6.7 ):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ueqml_sYDFU&eurl=http://www.ilmailu.org/forum/index.php?topic=536.100

at 20 second pace the landing...see the skids and mainwheel ! :thumbsup:

First time Juke
11-12-2008, 03:48 AM
I have readied now also 2 x 50 hp version ( along with the single engine craft and 2x22 hp version ).

This could brake the under 300 kg FAI record by far.

Tweak those 50 hp engines a little ( that only weigh 16 kilos each ) and you have 400 mph+ mover. 5 blader small props are needed too.


50 hp 16 kilo Limbach L550E engine:

http://www.limflug.de/files/pdf/DS-L550E.pdf

First time Juke
11-19-2008, 01:15 AM
Ok ladies and gents !


Here is the racer version of Tweedy Bird 3 seater; P H O E N I X II.

( I had a small uniwheel R/C model that I named Phoenix..thence the II )


On paper this should brake 218.3 mph speed set with Bede-5B.

Propelled with tuned Limbach L550E engines and 4 blade fanpropellers.

Power to weight ratio better than in wartime P-51D Mustang.

This must have flaperons to work ( unlike drawn in the pic ).


...and what colour would you like your racer to be ? :D

Will we have a new racer class now ? I wonder if mr. Burt Rutan ( of Scaled Composites ) would be interested to make this what it could be ?

:beerchug: :beerchug:

First time Juke
11-26-2008, 07:05 AM
This could have fully retracting main landing gear in Tweedy style.

This is a plane that aim is to be under 70 kilos with 12 l of fuel.

Engine could be from DA-170 to L275E ( and APT 200 cc ).

I have CAD drawn R/C model plans almost ready now.

Here is the ( GELB technology ) MAX II

First time Juke
11-28-2008, 06:33 AM
I have done an updated and more efficient MAX that I call now MINIMAX.

It is 12 ft long and spans some 18 ft.

It has radically more simple tail and lighter..a lot lighter..I'd say it weighs now under 50 kilos ( 110 lbs ) empty, but it would still be moderatly aerobatic.

I have also managed to enlarge the main wheel into 2 feet dia so it will cause very little friction at take off. Tail wheels ( dia 9 cm ) are also now in tact like in Aria ( the unfinished record braker..link previous page ).

I assure you there is no AC with less induced drag than in this one. The ground effect is in much more effective use and the body lifts like a bird. Only a flying wing could have less intereference drag than this ( but I doubt it when engined, ruddered and wheeled ).

------

God, I wish I had a workshop ( and an aerodynmist friend + mio.usd to develop it into marketplace as a thoroughly tested product ).

:angel:

First time Juke
12-09-2008, 08:45 AM
A passenger plane sketch with this idea.

Shoud I just leave the wings off ?

First time Juke
12-12-2008, 04:30 AM
Ok since I promissed to invent an low cost racer and inspired by this pic:

http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Horten_Nurflugels/ho_iv/Falvy_Pics/Img0076.jpg

I made another attempt to make world smallest twin..this time with unmatched speed as well so far.

God help me never to build it and fly it...but I just had to draw it.

The other on the right is the Minimax that I will try to make model first.

Still due to trade secret issue I will not show more than this. The pilot in Parrott single seater is in prone position for sure.


Happy Holidays folks !


PS: This would possibly be James Bond stuff or at least a competitor to to famous JETMAN of the swiss alps.

The Pusher Fan Man ! ..... :D :thumbsup:

:beerchug:

First time Juke
01-21-2009, 02:17 AM
Some changes has happened => span 5.2 m and lenght 3.8 m.

Since nothing has happened to get this advanced I present the profile.

Structure for a proto would be made of preformed ply_balsa_ply skin and few formers and spars to keep it together.

120 lbs weight is the goal...lighter than DA-11, but this has retracting main wheel and 4 more hp:s...will it fly with a 230 lbs pilot...that is the question.

:rolleyes:

First time Juke
01-22-2009, 02:27 AM
This 22 hp plane was supposed to be followed by twin engine pusher with lifting body, but seems that funding is not going to be in order so this will be postponed into undefinety future.

OTOH Here is Zimmer Skimmer; http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/29161-strange-planes-vought-v173-test-flights-video.htm

Lifting bodies have worked in the past !

:thumbsup:

First time Juke
01-27-2009, 02:47 AM
Something to motivate lifting body builders.


Lifting body before space shuttle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFTiDTLCE1U&feature=related


More efficient lifting body:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djdG0TNvPio&feature=related


Lifting bodies from the past:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8y5suPs1uE&feature=related

First time Juke
04-05-2009, 06:47 AM
E-TEC seems to have cracked the code;

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BRP:+Evinrude'R'+E-TEC'TM'+Receives+U.S.+EPA+Clean+Air+Excellence...-a0131222985

Less pollution excellent mileage and so forth.

IcePaq
07-30-2009, 09:11 AM
Precisely controlled direct injection is the only thing that will allow two stroke engines to come close to the fuel burn of a comparable 4 stroke engine and even then, you cannot get past the fact that cylinder scavenging is still not complete.

This is why two strokes are fading from the outboard boat engine scene.

AirDOGGe
08-04-2009, 02:38 PM
Pollution was the main reason they banned 2-stroke outboards around here in Northern Calif.. Aside from the dirtier exhaust, oil from the same was accumulating in the waters of lakes and reservoirs.

t it's more "flying wing" than "lifting body".

First time Juke
08-17-2009, 04:32 AM
East German 550 ccm two stroke car Trabant was notorious for pollution.

I think my concepts will allow a new electric engine to be very effective on them as well.