Fuel Injected 3350s?

[DWYER]

How come we don't see more of these motors with fuel injection? Availability? Lack of improvement? Does anybody know the history on these and where they have normally been used?

[Blue Foam]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

As to the stock, mechanical injection on some versions it is scarcity and lack of knowledge about the system and how to tune it that keeps them out. Thems that knows carbs wants carbs. Two years ago, a Gold team spent countless hours changing carbs because that was the magic component. Turned out to be something else.

With less risk and more potential, we could be using EFI and EEC (electronic engine control: fuel, ignition, knock detection, etc.). The expertise needed is tied up outside of Unlimiteds and no one inside the sport is willing to look out.

[h34race]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

Ok here is my two cents,A TBI unit is easy to tune and very closely works like a carb just a little more tuneable,needs a O,2 sensor a big electric fuel pump,the manifold is the biggest thing I can find as a problem,have to adapt it where the carb would be,I feel that if the O,2 sensor reads a leaner than it should be and is hurting things it richens it up to the specs you set in the computer.Holley makes one eldabrock makes several JUST NOT FOR PLANES YET!,Somebody on here has to know dick eldabrock all the hot rodders I see,just have to ask I bet he would jump at the chance to go into a new and untouched market,OK sorry went to drop 2 cents and dropped a dime instead, have fun with it it could work

[David E. Wells]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

My .02 says that when the Purse goes to where it Should be, we'll see a New Rebirth in Air Racing Technology...D.
p.s.like that's going to happen

[DWYER]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

Isn't that the truth!!!

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

With less risk and more potential, we could be using EFI and EEC (electronic engine control: fuel, ignition, knock detection, etc.). The expertise needed is tied up outside of Unlimiteds and no one inside the sport is willing to look out.

Eric you are right on this, But it is not that nobody on the unlimited side inside the sport wants to look out, it is the guys with the checkbooks don't want to spend on new technology. Da'Doc had parts of the ignition system that "sandgrenade" was building but nobody wanted to be first in line to try it. Just think of the multitude of advantages that could have been, but won't. There is quite a shopping basket of Merlin parts that will probably never be made either because of funding. New tech door opening stuff. My lack of interest in doing this anymore is because it is the same stuff, doing the same thing, year after year. Finally, I am working my own stuff.

Now do you have a good off the shelf pizza parts unit that will let me build an EFI for the 914 Porsche?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

Now do you have a good off the shelf pizza parts unit that will let me build an EFI for the 914 Porsche?

Ewe got a nine one four??

[Skyracer]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

Now do you have a good off the shelf pizza parts unit that will let me build an EFI for the 914 Porsche?

Do you have a 914-6, or just don't like the Bosch unit that's on the VW engine?

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

Blind Man't Bluff had EFI. A bug in their firmware turned out to be what was ruining the motors on alcohol. As I remember they hadn't counted on the altitude the plane would fly off the course and the altitude compensation made the mixture full rich at some altitude, washed all the oil off the cylinder walls and the engines failed. They mentioned it at a talk I attended in Phoenix years back when the Blind Man's Bluff program was still alive. It should be noted that their choice of the clipped wings was decidely non-scientific and it isn't clear there is an advantage to the clip wings on the course.

One of the funniest part of that teams history was when they went to put the plane back together for the first year they raced it. They had totally forgotten how most of the systems went together and had to get another Sea Fury flown in to study to figure it out. :-)

It definitely is possible, just takes the time to figure out.

Michele

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

Do you have a 914-6, or just don't like the Bosch unit that's on the VW engine?

The parts for the Bosch unit cost more than the car did, and the 914 is not my main project, My Boss 302 Mustang is my main project and it doesn't play well with others when it comes to sharing the car "toy" budget. This leaves very little for the Porsche to use for it's happiness. But I do wish it were a 914-6, in fact I have thought about doing the conversion if it will just stay unhappy long enough for the Boss to be finished.

The original Bosch unit is a good unit (my car is a 1973 914 so it is the later unit) but maintaining it is not hard with parts choices at they are today.

That's a stretch from 18 cylinder 3350s to 4 cylinders all in one fluid thread.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

John,

I used to have a dark blue metallic (beautiful) '75 914.. LOVED it.. except the Fuel Injection sucked!

Every time it would sneeze, it would bend that flap in the airflow box.. That was a SPENDY part even at deep discount. I got pretty good at bending it back into shape (not an easy task) so it would move easily but geez, what a PITA..

That, the fact that the valves always were needing adjustment (or so the book said) budget and other personal issues finally forced me to essentially give it away to someone who really would appreciate it..

I had more fun driving that car though than anything I've ever owned!

Used to see them all over the place, now, very very rare, indeed.

I think battery tray rust, which went down into the structure probably killed a lot of them.

Mine wasn't very old when I got it, had zero rust there, I did not catch the fact that the voltage regulator was running at very high charge and causing the battery to gas excessively and leak at times, by the time I got to it, she was really needing some TLC in that area.. i.e. replacement of some of the sheet metal.. kits were available and it wasn't an impossible task, just didn't fit into my lifestyle I found myself in at the time.. (went from 3 stall garage, access to full shop to zero garage, no access to shop)

Those were the good old days, these are the good days!

W.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

Blind Man't Bluff had EFI.

Blind Mans Bluff had a fuel injection unit on it that pressurized a common ring that fed fuel to the injectors. What they hadn't counted on was the effect of "G" loads on the fuel in the ring and as the "G" loads went up the mixture leaned slightly on the top, and enriched the lower cylinders.

When they burnt down their first Bullet and Skip was starting to fly the airplane. Joe Kasparoff asked me to go down and inspect the installation of the 3350 they had just put on. I came back with a list of 16 items that were flight critical and handed it to Joe. Joe then told Skip that he was not to fly the airplane until all the items were cleared and reinspected by me.

That was just prior to their crew chief catching himself on fire pouring the ether down the carb inlet to get the engine running.

On the night prior to the engine change, (they brought several spares) Larry Burton came up on his ATV to the Bearcat pit as we were shutting down for the day. he asked to borrow a borescope, Dave Cornell loaned ours. About fifteen minutes later one their guys came back and asked how to use it, Dave asked me to go and show them commenting that maybe they don't know what they are looking at.

I went down to the hangar and sure enough they did not. A look at I think it number 16 or 18 revealed a bad piston failure. I went back to the Rare Bear pit where about fifteen minutes later they came and asked if we had a spare cylinder. they had bought all the wrong type. we happened to have two late model -26W Cylinders in our trailer. We told them the cylinders belonged to AC&T and they could arrange payment after the races. Next they came down and asked for a cylinder gasket kit, we supplied that. Just as we were leaving for the hotel their head engine guy came back and explained that even though they had changed engines before none of them had ever changed a cylinder, so they asked Dave Cornell if there was someone that could help with that. So Dave loaned them me. As we arrived at the CIA hangar I asked them how much metal was in the screens? They looked puzzled, Screens? Ah... lets check those. there is a big and a fine parts screen on the gozouta side of the 3350 sump, so first I opened the big one, brandishing a large chunk of piston I told them their soldier was a dead player and they needed to enlist another. Dave and Bonny Cornell had just pulled up to the hangar in their blue Ford wagon to see if I wanted food. So dave and I looked over their project for the night, aligned them on a mission. Joe Kasparoff came by and asked me to inspect the installation in the morning and that is where they were at.

Now that long story is to illustrate that I don't ever believe that they had a handle on what was going on with their Alky burning engine. as they never fully had a handle on what was going with the whole operation.

They came onto the seen stating they were going to show us all how it was done, I politely along with two other Bear guys went down and introduced ourselves and gave them the welcome after they first arrived in Al's hangar. to which we were sectioned away from the plane as potential spies, so maybe that has an influence on my opinion but I doubt it. Who among those that were there can remember Joanne Osterud's first landing?

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

Wayne,
In reality the '73 914 is my wife's toy, but it has been in storage at my folks house for a couple of years. (I know Lyle) while she has been busier being a mom than a sportycar person, mini-van vs. 914, 914 loses in the mom world.

I took a real interest in the 914 when I found out there were really good ways to screw one up! there is the 914-6 conversion that really doesn't screw it up, but renegade makes a V8 conversion that I think would love a really good alloy small block with EFI and electronic engine management, which brings us full circle again on this thread. How many laps can we go?

[SCEPTER]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

Wow thanks for the great post.

[DWYER]

Re: Fuel Injected 3350s?

Well it looks like the September Fury crew had it down to a science in 2006. It sounded like she was running extremely clean.

And talk about the sound. Very unique. Is that mostly the exhausts that make it sound that different. Or is it a combo of the fuel injection exhaust and other mods??