RE-Directing a thread

[BellCobraIV]

Bill Marsh,
This is how you go about re-directing a thread.

Bill Marsh posted on the Magic is back thread the following -

People


. counter . what ever

It IS whats happening folks, and where WE are, it aint!

To proove my . I would give my left nut to have the red bull guys take over this rinky dinky , RARA circle jerk we have here. Thr Reno guys really dont give a rats ass about whatwe hold near and dear to our hearts. It you think for one second that the economocs of filling casions or hotels or hooker services would be better served racing jackasses around track ..... they would drop us like a rock!

I have been on several boards and attended many NAG meeting for years trying to get a "center" of consensis going.

All i get basically is a lot of talk and ZZZZZZZZZ for action.

Why cant THIS board be the spark plug on maturing this nitch activity into some real change.

Remember people.....perception is reality. And our september deal wont last forever sparky!

thats my .

BM

Then he added;

One more thing....... HEY WAYNE PUT THIS AS A SEPARATE THREAD.

" ITS NOW OR NEVER" thread or what ever name u want to use!!!!

The only two guys iv heard Cobb and Slack have manuvwered there postings about a vehicle for change.

So, the bench racing has got to STOP as a reactive approach and a proactive consenses needs to START.

Run this frikin problem like a business start up.... the product? is matruring what happens on this board.

BM !!

[BellCobraIV]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

So now my reply to is as follows.

Let there be no doubt as to the following statements accuracy.

I have lived it. I have sat in discussions with my Dad and others regarding it.

I have witnessed a meeting in Shafter where Tiger, Bob Button, and Lyle met with one of Rara's directors to try to come to a common ground for the good of the sport.

I watched in the late seventies as Clay Lacy, Lyle, Leroy Penhall, and others offered another venue at Mojave.

So with that in mind understand my point of view when I say without a doubt in my mind.

RARA doesn't care one bit about advancing air racing beyond their own venue. They don't care about Television coverage, they don't want the growth that the increased coverage would provide. this would give too much power to the contestants. The same goes for any otherreal idea to give the sport legs. Right now the Unlimited Class needs Reno to survive, they are self perpetuating. People will fly to Reno to see the Unlimiteds, the Unlimiteds go to Reno because that is the only real venue offered to them.

Understand the real hope is finally here, The contestants for the first time in the top end can afford to make changes that don't require Reno. Mike Brown, Rod Lewis, Bill Destefani could afford to start and promote a new venue. It would be a costly venture and would require a lot of work to make happen but if Reno could be replaced with a better venue one that appreciated the sport and wanted it to grow. Well that would be better than the slow death at the will of those that just don't give a damn.

I doubt there will be a resurgence in the community that will bring new venues to the sport, but I would love to be wrong.

[MikeS]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Understand I'm a complete novice when it comes to the innards of the Air Racing structure (business?). But I found myself asking the question - does this mean the pilots and teams are rooting for the Tunica Air Racing thing to get relocated and get it's legs under it? Would that be the venue that many would be hoping to see grow into something that could be marketed in a better way?

I know some of you may criticize me for being green. Like I said. I'm a newbie to following all this in earnest, and I just want to learn more. I'm not sure what I could do to help, but would do so if I knew I could help. Hell, I'll sweep a floor in a hangar, if there is one close to Indy I can sweep. If there are threads I should read for more background, please let me know which ones, and I'll be happy to read those so you experienced folks don't have to repeat yourself.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

I know some of you may criticize me for being green. Like I said. I'm a newbie to following all this in earnest, and I just want to learn more. I'm not sure what I could do to help, but would do so if I knew I could help.

That is the first step to doing something, Reading, learning, figuring out what you can do. I remember back in the early eighties when a guy named Dave Cornell walked into the Bearcat hangar at Van Nuys and said "I have a machine shop, is there anything I can do?"

[jarrodeu]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Probably seems silly but could said people buy out the Reno air races? Maybe a while after that it could be moved out from the houses.

Jarrod

[Peashooter]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Probably seems silly but could said people buy out the Reno air races? Maybe a while after that it could be moved out from the houses.

Jarrod

Interesting idea, Jarrod. However, the rule to the pricing of such a transaction is "Willing Buyer, Willing Seller". (Or 6-10 times Gross Income on the high end.) With a non-profit such as RARA, you don't buy "stock", you are essentially buying out annual (read recurring) compensation from the head honchos. Meanwhile, the buyers have to make money, too.

It would be more than interesting to sit in on such negotiations!

[Bill Marsh]

Re: RE-Directing a thread CHANGE THIS NAME TITLE

Wayne, thanks for starting this new thread.

NOW TOSSING INTO THE RING OF CHANGE.... my 2 bucks worth
(A) This thread should be about this sports future.... manage it like a project... maybe pick specific people to do specific things or goals.
(B) state some thread goals
(C) owners of stated goals
(D) volunters to help goal realization
(e) maybe an action item guy to make a clear consensus on prior screw ups...or what ever..... or ...... the things that did work, and chronicle this activity to all parties interested..... what ever

im just brain storming.... but you get the deal i think

_____________________________


Since the Hard Core therad came and went.... could we or you rename that dormant thread and into something appropriate that will give old and new viewers something that they can sink their teeth into.


0. An appropriate name about what are primary goal is
1. Keep this it at the top of the thread board for obvious reasons
2. All comments, no matter how trival are important
3. Use PM to manage action items (and dis agreements with the parties that have specific knowledge of specific problems that need resolution as a side bar) and only state RESULTS on the public-side of this board

4. No reactive hashing and re-hashing the same ol' same ol'..... we all been down memory lane before....right?
5. Its not about what WAS but what IS and SHOULD BE in, i.e. the future.
6. This MUST BE A PROACTIVE thread.


I gotta head ache
BMarsh............. any takers?


PS

Cobb / Slack / Wayne.... u guys see to hav something to usually say

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: RE-Directing a thread CHANGE THIS NAME TITLE

Wayne, thanks for starting this new thread.

Weren't me...

[Bill Marsh]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Im not very smart..... cant even type gooood

O......Beeeee One




BMarsh

[RandyGoss75]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Bill,

There are several of us at AAFO that have the ability to remove/edit/delete ANYTHING on the site................

What is is exactly that you want?

I am really trying to not edit your posts, as I think it is an interesting debate.... and I would be more than happy to open a special thread dedicated to the topic you are trying to express.......

BUT..... This is really not the forum to bash RARA.........

I understand your position, and everyone elses about trying to better the sport- Lord knows I am all for air racing, and I am sure there are many excellent ideas floating around that might be valid- perhaps we could gather them here and forward them to RARA in a pseudo drop box type email....something along the "from the fans" type deal........

There are a lot of folks that post here that have been around for a long time....seen a lot come and go.......some good, some bad....and I know we all have opinions about what has been...and will be...........

I am not trying to sway your opinion one way or another, I am just trying to say if we can pass along something positive...cool.....

But we are not going to change much here bitching about RARA......

And if it was easy....EVERYBODY would be having air races...All the best, Randy Goss

[Bill Marsh]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Randy,

THE FUTURE OF OUR AIR RACING

To figure out a way of controlling and focusing the energy of this board into doing what ever is best for this niche sport.

The energy is all over the place on this board, do we have the ability to impact the direction of whats happening, i dont know, Slack said (i think) "that, even if it is a long shot" , he would like to do something.

Soooo, "if we fail to plan.... our plan will fail".

1) Lets plan a direction, thats all


______________

And about RARA.... really not bashing them, its just that economics drive therir goals

AND US PEOPLES ....

do we have any...... goals

BMarsh

[ShermB]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

If any of you reading/posting here attended the NAG Banquet a few years ago, where Mike Houghton was the featured speaker, you heard him say that it was not about racing as much as it was "show business". The racing does not pay the freight. The majority of the paying customers come for a few hours of air-show acts and the Blues or the T-birds. The hard core racing fans (many who do not buy a ticket, but camp in the desert) just do not pay for the greatest amount of the dollars it takes to put on the Reno Championship Air Races. I have had the pleasure (??) of being a race producer. The first year, being fat,dumb, and happy ("let's put on a show" in the best Judy Garland/Mickey Rooney glee) we paid our bills. We raced 10 IF-1's and had 3 T-6's doing a demo race.The next year we were $20,000 in the hole and couldn't pay the performers or racers all their money, but did pay off by the end of 90 days. We had a large field of IF-1's and real T-6 racing.The 3rd year our budget was $97,000 but I, as the finance person, couldn't raise that much money so we gave it up. It will take a lot of money, lots of planning time, a venue that is accessible to the attendees, but far enough away from housing developments, dedicated volunteers in the community, City Fathers on your side, and TONS of money. This is not the function of RARA, but of the racing community to make it happen. Some of the racing classes used togo to ICAS to solicit gigs, but it isn't worth their while to spend the money for registration and booth space. The Sharp's used to be big on trying to get a circuit going for IF-1's. They spent hours and $$$ of their own to do so. I admire people like Landers who has been trying to start new venues and you have seen what that guy has gone through. NAG used to have an officiating team ready to travel anywhere to to assist a venue in the planning, paper work, teaching the locals how to build pylons, officiate and time the races, but we haven't been asked since Phoenix, and you know what happened there with that grandiose 3 year plan. And we lost a rare plane, to boot. NOW, who is going to step up and take the challenge? My $.02 worth.
Betty Sherman, Treasurer
National Air racing Group
Former member of the N.W. Classic Air Race
Richland,Washington

[BellCobraIV]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Betty,
I understand more than most what it takes to promote this sport, I watched Lyle come home after many trips around the country where he had scouted potential race courses, Time and again he would open a file on a new project. He was one of the founders of Air Race Management, and one of the people responsible for what was initially going to be the Northern Area Group of the PRPA, which as you know became the NAG as we know it today. There have been many tireless people that have given their all to forward this sport in the background, some at the cost of health, some at the cost of family and friends.

The fact of the matter is this board, no matter how well intentioned is not going to promote a new venue. The only reason to mention it here is to toss around ideas in an interested group setting that maybe will fall upon the ears of those that can make change. The question is, does anybody or group want a series bad enough to fund it? Staff it and push it forward? Like I said probably not.


Bill Marsh,
I was the one that re-directed this thread here, for two reasons,
(a) it didn't seem apropriate in the "Magic is back" thread.
(b) I thought the ideas here should be allowed to move forward.

I don't have any power on this board, I just cut and pasted your comments into a new thread.

as for the Quote;

"The energy is all over the place on this board, do we have the ability to impact the direction of whats happening, i dont know, Slack said (i think) "that, even if it is a long shot" , he would like to do something."

I am overbooked as it is with family, consulting/working on the former family project, real work, restoring a car, and studying the Bi-plane class.
I don't have the fire to promote a new venue, I have watched the ashes of those that have come before me cool into a bedrock of harsh reality. But I would love to watch someone make a change, but it won't be me.

[speeddemon]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

and studying the Bi-plane class.

Gotcha thinkin' about it now, didn't I, John? Lyle's Pitts is just CALLING your name!

Lets think of a good name for it first:

"Pitt Hair"?

If you let me fly it, it could be "Brad's Pitt"

Or we could borrow from the past and call it "Beercat". I know Goss would go for that one.

[Propellerhead]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

If you let me fly it, it could be "Brad's Pitt"