If memory serves me correctly, isn't Vne 515mph on a Mustang? If this is the case.....it seems a lot of the unlimited racers are nearing this...I assume the Bearcats, Sea Fury's etc are in the same ball park. In addition to the speed......the constant G forces while banking, plus the turbulence encountered on the course.......seems like a lot of stress on 60 year old airframes. I'm just curious, has this been a concern to the racers in the past of present?? If so.......what is done to strengthen the airplanes.
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Re: Stress/fatigue
Putting this stuff in print wont help anyone Supercub. Internet posts are viewed by alot of people who make rules based on gibberish that is spewed from the uneducated on these boards. I guarantee the Reno Air Races or Warbirds in general won't be affected in a positive way by speculation about stress on a particular airframe and age, etc.
Thanks,
Will Whiteside
Race 33
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Re: Stress/fatigue
Let me see here...warning...I'm about to spew some gibberish...
Ask a question = attempt to get an informed answer = a better educated person = less gibberish?
I feel that your answer to Supercub's question defeats the spirit and purpose of this board.
Lonnie
Do we not gather here to ask questions and share information about something that we all love? I've seen first hand the result of aircraft component failure do to metal stress/fatigue. I've also had a hand in the research, and implemention of ideas to help fix and prevent such failures from being repeated. Some things worked, some didn't didn't, but everyone was free to ask questions...even those like Supercub's, made people uncomfortable, but it also made us think.
The answer to Supercub's question has really struck a bad nerve with me.Comment
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Re: Stress/fatigue
Supercub,
Vne is for indicated airspeed.
Our T-6 ("Warlock") indicates about 210 when we are running laps in the 230's at Reno (remember the 2% per thousand feet , and compensation for non standard OAT)
I would imagine the fastest Unlimiteds "only" (
) indicate 400-450 at Reno?
All the best, Randy GossComment
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Re: Stress/fatigue
[QUOTE=RareHair75]
VNE is for indicated airspeed.
Huh. And here I always thought VNE stood for Very Nervous (flight) Engineer.
They always seemed nervous when I was in the seat. I thought it was just me.
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I would try and explain TAS and ground speed to you Speedy,
but being you Navy guys don't know much about "true", and you always fly over water......neither would make much sense to you! OBR
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Re: Stress/fatigue
Any idea on how many G's are pulled during a lap of say 480 around the course?
LonnieComment
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As far as stress, a key factor is that airframe life (or the life of any flexing piece of metal that is subject to fatigue) is proportional to both the size of the forces/deflections AND the duration of time where those forces/deflections are present, provided that the ultimate breaking force is never reached. Sitting in the hangar from October to August doesn't take any time off the airframe. Nor does sitting on the ramp. The air racers may be old, and they may fly in a relatively harsh environment during the races, but they do it for a TINY amount of time each year. I would imagine that the airframes are far, far, FAR from being "used up" at the current levels of stress and time per year.Originally posted by supercubComment
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I am not sure about others, but on the old course I used to reset the "g" when Lyle was done and it was usually 3.5 to 4.0, but I have heard others had spikes to 6.0, not sure about the new course.Originally posted by MMPerkJohn SlackComment
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Wow, just ONE year at Reno and already you're spewing negatives. Might want to think about all the positive support you've gotten from all the uneducated spewing gibberish on this board.Originally posted by Whiteside
TomComment
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Re: Stress/fatigue
Four other factors at play that contribute to safe race ops:
1) The warbird racers are flying significantly below their original military gross weights;
2) Those with clipped wings have reduced the bending moment of the wing;
3) There's at least 60 years of operational and structural experience with the WW-II warbirds; and
4) Restoration art/technology is to the point that virtually any part can be recreated as necessary when the original reached the end of its service life. Heck, Gerry Beck's P-51A is a brand new airplane!
PS Private messaging is a wonderful tool.Rutan Long EZ, N-LONG
World Speed Record HolderComment
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Re: Stress/fatigue
Originally posted by BellCobraIV
Many thanks for the reply.
Until the question that started this thread came up, I never really put much thought into the G's pulled around the course. I can see how spikes of 6 could be reached by simply trying to tighten your line in the middle of a turn, tyring to get as close as you can to the pylon.
As for airframe fatigue. We would have to also add life to the said airframe due to the constant love and care given to these birds. Being rebuilt, overhauled and maintained like they are must extend the life of the airframe quite a bit.
Lonnie,
I would like to add more, but I'm running late for work!!Comment
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Re: Stress/fatigue
Statistically, how many structural failures directly due to fatigue have there been, not counting bad modifications, overstress (pilot error), thunderstorms, etc. NONE of which are attributable to age and use?
I can't think of any, might be wrong tho.
I'll except the T-34, but that is being dealt with.
These owners for the most part take EXTREMELY good care of these planes and I would say they are better maintained, inspected and operated than they ever were in service.
And I agree with you in part Will. While the exchange on these sites is mostly innocent and a way for the uninformed to learn, there is an element that lets these comments influence their thinking and the results can be bad.
And people! No reason to flame Will for his opinion, anymore than any of you getting flamed for yours.
Bye
LeoComment
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Except for me, right? I thought it was just the understood policy that I reserve the right to flame people at will, yet stand behind my word at any criticism sent my way and deflect it to someone else.Originally posted by Leo
Isn't that the way its supposed to work?
Man, I'll tell you...it's rough being a genious sometimes.
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I really don't know much about stress factors and all, BUT if any of the T-6 guys or fighter guys either one offered me a ride in one. I'd take them up on it and just figure they know their aircraft and the inspection history, and if they felt safe, I'd feel safe. P.S. does anyone want to offer me a ride?
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