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  • Wheel Landings

    My brother Tom and I have this on-going dialogue concerning wheel landings vs 3 point, he likes to wheel land, I don't. We were bored yesterday at lunch time, so we drug out one of the T-6's and spent the better part of an hour doing touch and go's while he attempted to teach me the finer points of the wheel landing. When I got home last night I did a little reading: The flight manual for the T-6, P-51, P-47 and A-1E all specify a 3 point landing. The Mustang book does have a note about doing a wheel landing in "unusual" weather conditions: "Always make 3-point landings unless a wheel landing is justified by unusual weather conditions." I can see the need to carry extra speed and wheel land in gusty winds. I asked the old man if they ever wheel landed the Skyraider back in the day, and his response was "no, never". Yet it seems to me that most folks wheel land their warbirds these days.

    So my question for discussion is this: What are the pluses and minuses of the wheel landing, and why are most folks deviating from flight manual guidance and historical operating practices? There must be a reason, but it's beyond me. Please help me understand what I'm missing.

  • #2
    Re: Wheel Landings

    There are those with opinions on the "correct" way to land citing that thre-point, wheelies, etc are the "only" way to go. However the reality is that one should land using the technique appropriate for the conditions.

    I was taught to fly in a number of light and not too light tailwheel airplanes. Back then, the rule was that the little airplanes should be landed three-point and the heavier ones should be landed tail-low, heading for a three-point. I never was taught to land the airplane in a level wheel-landing position like a lot of airplanes are landed today.
    The technique of wheel-landing was that ahe airplane was flown to touchdown at the 1.3 speed or so and then rounded out just like a tail-low or three-point landing, and just when the mains touched the stick or wheel was pushed forward to reduce the AOA to near zero and the wing wouldn't want to fly the airplane off in gusty conditions.

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    • #3
      Re: Wheel Landings

      I guess there is no edit feature anymore, so I'll go on from where I left off.

      I never liked this technique because it made for a big heading change and I didn't then adequately understand the effects of GP, gyroscopic precession. Pushing the stick forward made the airplane go hard left, and it always is a destabilizing effect no matter if you are ready for it or not, so I avoided for years the sudden changing of pitch attitude.

      So through the years there developed a technique of flying the airplane down to the runway at whatever speed was necessary for the traffic or length of runway, or wind, and then doing whatever necessary to transition to the appropriate attitude for landing.

      The criteria are always judged at the time, but the Twin beech into LAX always was at 160 knots approach speed to fit in to the jet traffic, and then at the point where it was needed the airplane would be decellerated to the level wheel landing attitude airspeed and landed that way.

      After a non-precision approach into Fresno on a nice calm morning the airplane was only going about 110 and already in the landing configuration so it was an easy set-up for a nice pretty three-pointer to make the mid-field intersection turn off.

      Some fields were too small to mess around and a Staggerwing into Meadowlark was made at minimum speed with a power flare at about 80mph to as close to a three-point position as one can get and once it's on, or close to on, to pull the power immediately so it will stop.

      Crosswinds that are steady do not change my considerations for a landing technique. If it is a steady 15 mph crosswind and I am landing an airplane I usually do a tail-low landing in, that is what I will use.

      Gusty conditions close to the limit of the airplanes ability I will use a different technique, usually a level attitude wheel-landing technique because it is real easy to go around, you get an idea of the airplane's ability to stay in control directionally as it slows down.
      My father will land in a strong gusty crosswind in any tailwheel airplane with the same flare to a three point as in a clam wind. He has no need for wheelies. His contention is that the combonation crab/slip to an upwind wheel touchdown is as good as a wheelie if the wind is too strong for a coordinated touchdown at tail-low speed, and that the extra speed is just postponing the inevitable, the tailwheel must touchdown eventually.

      He was obviously trained from those old manuals, Ken.

      I used to try to only make three-pointers or tail-low landings until I started flying freighters in a lot of different conditions. I decided after a few hairy roll-outs that the "air show maneuver" wheelies were not so hard to do. They keep the wing at zero AOA so it won't lift off. And sometimes the wind was too strong to taxi in, and a couple of times it was requiredto use the tail-high power/brake taxi to get it to the parking spot. Not recommended for antiques of ones own ownership!

      There are many varied techniques to get the airplane on and stopped, and it seems that the three-pointer is one no used often anymore, I agree. But to me a well performed three-pointer is one of the best tools to use for depleting the airplane's energy and getting it stopped. One of the prettiest I remember seeing was Tiger in Strega making a deadstick at Madera after an engine failure and playing the flap handle like the spoiler in a glider to round out beautifully at what looked very slow speed to touchdown with the tailwheel touching immediately after the mains and staying down for the very short rollout. A very well executed landing in an airplane that undeservedly gets a rep for not being safe to three-point. Obviously that is not true.

      Chris...

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      • #4
        Re: Wheel Landings

        Being around some of the guys that used to fly the T-6 and the P-51 "back in the day", I have heard the comment that most of the flight manuals usually considered normal landing being done on grass and into the wind.

        I know there are some old training field sites around here from the Sterman training days that look like a compass rose. The airplane was headed into the wind and go, no fixed runway or nasty crosswinds to deal with.

        For the T-6, I like wheel landings better, but like three point flying the cub. We had a Yak 55 for a while and it had to be three pointed, the prop would hit if you tried wheeling it.

        Chip

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        • #5
          Re: Wheel Landings

          Ken:
          Not a judgemental question at all, do you 3 point civilian Mustangs?
          I have never seen it done. I will 3 point on grass, in non-gusty conditions, but not on paved runways; if it drops, it drops harder than on grass.
          Just curious, thx,
          VL

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Wheel Landings

            Chris:
            The manuals for the Mustang were written for a military weight aircraft. For the Twin Beech, does it matter if it is heavy or light for 3 point landings? Do you change your landing technique depending on landing weight? Never asked this before......Very curious.
            Thx,
            VL

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Wheel Landings

              Originally posted by MLenoch
              Chris:
              The manuals for the Mustang were written for a military weight aircraft. For the Twin Beech, does it matter if it is heavy or light for 3 point landings? Do you change your landing technique depending on landing weight? Never asked this before......Very curious.
              Thx,
              VL
              Hi Vlado,
              The Twin Beeches I flew were all converted to the high tailwheel/raised incidence stab types or E's and G's that were built that way and were much easier to get the tail down when there was a heavy load in the back than I think they might have been if they were AT's or C's and D's.

              My Dad's Staggerwing was a stock UC-43/GB-2 type and had the military short spools keeping the stab incidence pretty far "leading edge down" for a good three-pointer with only one person in the airplane, and when I flew it as a kid it did not want to three-point with me in it even though it was set-up this way. You had to get slow and then flare with power to get it "dug-in" to do it, which I only did on short fields. It is much nicer with five people in it, very solid with a cross the fence at 90 and just pull the power and flare it out coming down on the mains and quickly thereafter, the tailwheel.

              I think that the idea about a messed up three pointer and the resulting damage if you drop in a heavy tailwheel airplane is a factor as to whether to do them or not, as you intimated in your conditions for a three pointer. I have seen other guys besides Tiger do them in a Mustang, Ed Shipley and Pat McGarry to drop names but they were in good conditions.
              My father flew Lockheeds as executive transports in the olden days and the chief pilot of the company would let Dad make a three-pointer in the Howard 500 or Super Ventura, "...if I told him I was going to do it first".
              I think it asks for a little more precision and thought to do correctly.

              I go for the tail-low on airplanes I don't fly very much unless they are specifically better off landed three-point.

              The Pitts Special is one I have just started to wheel land, and I have had them for nine years! Ones experience in type probably accounts for a lot too in choosing what technique to use.

              Thanks for the question,
              Chris...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Wheel Landings

                Originally posted by Chris McMillin
                My father flew the Howard 500.....
                Now THAT is an airplane!!!!!!!!!!

                BTW.....we own the Type Certificate for the H-500..............wish I could build a few!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Wheel Landings

                  Vlado-

                  Thanks for posting. I've never flown a Mustang. I used it as a reference, because I had the manual on my bookshelf. There are plenty of WWII Fighter Pilots that will tell you they have never wheel landed an airplane. Chip's point about the square training fields and the lack of a crosswind is valid, but I don't think the combat fields in Europe were set up that way. Not trying to throw any spears, just very curious. Always looking for a better way to operate our airplanes.

                  -Ken



                  Ken:
                  Not a judgemental question at all, do you 3 point civilian Mustangs?
                  I have never seen it done. I will 3 point on grass, in non-gusty conditions, but not on paved runways; if it drops, it drops harder than on grass.
                  Just curious, thx,
                  VL

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Wheel Landings

                    The old dreaded three point or wheel landing. I believe the late P51 manuals asked for a tail low wheel landing. I believe from 3500 plus Mustang hours and 700 dual given that any landing you can taxi up to the chokes is a good landing. It would be nice to say for the sake of being manly that three points are what the pro's do. The reality is I like tail low wheel landings. I can put a Mustang in on a dime and maintain directional control without worrying about ripping the tail wheel out because I dropped the plane in from too high. As a mechanic I can tell you full stall landings are hard on the tail of a Mustang. If its a beautiful day and I want to wow the crowd the P51 does a great three point. Come in a bit too fast and eat up a few feet of runway then throw in a gusty cross wind and a three point can eat you alive. Now if your talking about a Cub or a Stearman or a Bear Cat, Wildcat, Skyraider they are pussy cats to three point. In the Bear Cat you make it to the airport boundry and chop the power hold it off and she floats on like a champ this is true of all Grumman aircraft. Mustang-Sea Fury are a bit of a different animal. Mustangs air foils don't like high angles of attack. Tail low wheelies work for me throw in an occasional three point for the crowd. What's right? take your choice/. I do have to say that Tom always amazed me with his three point landings in the Sea Fury Critical Mass. I think I even went up to him and told him he was my hero after seeing what he had to do to get his plane back in his short runway back home. The bottom line is both work just fine. Don't forget the reason they put nose wheels on airplanes is that they were tired of picking up the broken **** after the ground loop. I always said the toughest part of an Unlimited race was landing after the battle was over. Imagine turning final into the setting sun with a plane out of gas wind blowing 25-30 knots 45 degrees off the nose engine running rough and your going to lay three point on the crowd. My question is who cares? Do what works best for you. I can tail low wheel land a Mustang into an 1800 foot strip and can put it on the first 12 inches of the runway everytime, that's what works for me.

                    Matt J

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Wheel Landings

                      Originally posted by King
                      Now THAT is an airplane!!!!!!!!!!

                      BTW.....we own the Type Certificate for the H-500..............wish I could build a few!
                      Very cool. The one the he flew was N200G (company kept the number) that is now in England. The Super they had was destroyed running dope in the 70's.
                      I would be nice to build a few more. Do you also have the jigs, I heard there is a fuse in the jig, is that true?
                      Chris...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Wheel Landings

                        Back when I had about 100 hours in the Mustang........aw-alright, when I had less than 20 hours..... tried landings using my past experience as a guide...T-6, Pitts, etc. The small airport had 2900' for starters. Tried using 3 point landings. It just didn't feel comfortably consistant. Runway couldn't be wasted, it was almost always crosswind, with turbulence from hangers-trees... What I was getting was an occasional wing drop during the 3 point - full stall landing. So I had to switch to the tail low wheel landing. With this, I could more accurately hit the mark on the runway end and had assured lateral control to touch down.

                        What I did notice in later years (gasp, time isn't standing still...) when flying fully restored Mustangs with guns, armor, etc. a slower and even more tail low and sometimes 3 point landing felt much more comfortable than in my own light civie bird. Thus, I wondered if the higher weight Twin Beech experience was similar.

                        Ken - Matt - Chris , thanks for the great input. I keenly appreciate another perspective. Always very much look forward to hearing of any new nuances or ideas in flying these warbirds.

                        Thanks again,
                        Vlado

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Wheel Landings

                          Ken:
                          When are you going to race the T6 again? The T6's need guys like you in their ranks.
                          Race 18 (ret.)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Wheel Landings

                            Originally posted by Chris McMillin
                            Very cool. The one the he flew was N200G (company kept the number) that is now in England. The Super they had was destroyed running dope in the 70's.
                            I would be nice to build a few more. Do you also have the jigs, I heard there is a fuse in the jig, is that true?
                            Chris...
                            No jigs exist anymore. Unless they were spirited out many years ago by someone.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Wheel Landings

                              Matt-

                              3500 hrs in the Mustang? How in the world... Hold on while I add you to MY hero list. Your point about dropping it in 3 point and damaging the airplane makes a lot of sense.

                              Vlado-

                              We used to have a T-6G that was really stock, except that the guns, bomb racks and military radios had been removed. When flying solo, I couldn't 3 point it. The elevator would hit the stop and it would land on the mains with the tail still a little in the air. We eventually had it weighed and found that when solo, it was forward of the forward CG limit. We took that big battery off of the firewall and moved it the tailcone and it landed much nicer. Both of the T-6's we have now have the battery in the back, but I like the way they land when there is someone big in the back seat. Could your experiences with the stock vs civillian Mustang be related to CG?

                              All-

                              I guess my reluctance to wheel landing the T-6 is based on the ground loop potential. When the tailwheel is on the ground, I've got a lot of yaw authority. When I land tail high, it's not hard to get yaw swing or two until I figure the gains out. I know plenty of folks that have ground looped the T-6 while wheel landing, and not one who has hurt it while landing 3 point. I know they must be out there.
                              You guys have given me enough reasons for a tail low wheel landing (a/c damage, gusty wind, big airport) that I am going to work on them. It's probably something I should have in my bag of tricks. Thanks for your input. Now anyone want to talk about crosswinds?....

                              -Ken

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