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  • Looking for Info on Crash

    I found a crashed plane in the late 70s to early 80s in the San Felipe Hills near the Salton Sea, California.According to an old timer living in the area, the plane was returning for the Reno air races when it blew up in mid air. The pilot was found on top of a high plato where they placed a cross. The old timer was not sure when it crashed and said the plane was never found. About 3 months later I stumbled on the wreck mostly buried under an overhang in a very deep raven. I definitely had to trail blaze to get to the wreck. The wreck was pretty disintegrated. I found an aluminum v12 engine with the heads blown off,a variable pitch, multi blade prop with the blades separated from the cone and lots of pieces. I don't know much about planes but I am guessing it might have been a P-51 Mustang. 20 some years later (last weekend) I took my grandson out to the desert and tried to locate the wreck to show to him. No luck. I am now wondering about the history of the pilot and plane and after all this time and if it's location was ever reported. I have search a little on the web but have found nothing except this forum which I am sure may have more knowledge about plane crashes associated with the Reno Air Races. Any info would be appreciated.

    Thanks, Mike

  • #2
    Re: Looking for Info on Crash

    speeddemon or randy goss are your guys, no doubt they'll chime in tomorrow
    heh heh alriiiight

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    • #3
      Re: Looking for Info on Crash

      I wouldn't be surprised if the wreck was recovered. Given the value of even a data plate these days almost any wreck is getting scooped up.

      Michele

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      • #4
        Re: Looking for Info on Crash

        I've been pondering this for the last few days. To my knowledge there have only been a handful of racers 'lost' on the way home from the races.

        Ben Hall's T-6 (I think Rudy K. was flying it) crashed on the way home from the '71 races, but he was heading to Seattle.

        Jack Sliker's F8F ran out of gas and crashed at Flagstaff, AZ on the way home to Georgia in '75.

        JRS crashed Tsunami in Pierre, S.D. after the '91 races.

        So my guess is that if it WAS a P-51, and they WERE coming home from the Reno Air Races, it was someone who had just flown there to watch. Back in the 60's there used to be lots of Mustangs, T-6's, and Bearcats that would park in the pits, even though they weren't 'entered'.

        RG, any thoughts?

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        • #5
          Re: Looking for Info on Crash

          Hi

          I am new to this forum and I am living in Switzerland. I am involved with Yak's but generally interested in all "Warbirds".

          I have a copy of the book "Aircraft Wrecks in the mountains and deserts of California" and there is an F-51 D (N33Z) listed which crashed on 8-1979 in the Anza Borrego Desert State Park. It says that the pilot was killed and the aircraft was broken up in flight...

          Sounds like a match for your description?

          Marco

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          • #6
            Re: Looking for Info on Crash

            Here is a list from the NTSB site of every California P-51 crash between 1970 and 1987:

            8/18/1984 * MADERA, CA * N65206 * Nonfatal *
            10/4/1980 * LANCASTER, CA * N51MP * Fatal(2) *
            8/21/1979 * NSALTON CITY, CA N332 * Fatal(1) *
            10/29/1977 * BAKERSFIELD, CA * N5747 * Nonfatal *
            6/16/1976 * MOJAVE, CA * N69QF * Fatal(1) *
            11/26/1971 * CHINO, CA * N3333E * Nonfatal *
            8/25/1971 * PALMDALE, CA * N511D * Fatal(2) *
            8/16/1970 * CONCORD, CA * N5410V * Fatal(0)

            Nothing in September per se, but the Oct 4th 1980 crash is maybe a possible. Maybe we are not after a P-51 here. But then I don't think it was a P-40, Yak-3/9, or other either.

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            • #7
              Re: Looking for Info on Crash

              Originally posted by Swiss_Yak
              Hi

              I am new to this forum and I am living in Switzerland. I am involved with Yak's but generally interested in all "Warbirds".

              I have a copy of the book "Aircraft Wrecks in the mountains and deserts of California" and there is an F-51 D (N33Z) listed which crashed on 8-1979 in the Anza Borrego Desert State Park. It says that the pilot was killed and the aircraft was broken up in flight...

              Sounds like a match for your description?

              Marco
              That would be Dave Zeuschel's 'old' N332. Not the N332 "Stiletto", but the N332 that Cliff Cummins and Darryl Greenamyer raced in the 1000 mile/km races in the early '70's, as well as the "Maytag Mustang" when Wayne Adams flew it in '64 and '65.

              As I recall, though, the plane didn't have anything to do with the races at when it crashed. Zeushel had sold it to a new owner by then.

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              • #8
                Re: Looking for Info on Crash

                One Mustang racer I thought of was Jim Ventura's that was lost in a x-country race- I believe that was back east.....

                Marco, I think you are right-

                N332 did crash in the Borrego Springs area-

                This was the "Maytag Mustang" and later the paperwork went to Stilleto.

                P-51 Mustang Who? Case: 52 - Jun 15 2000 - / unknown place/date - Status: Closed, Serial: 45-11471, Registry: N332. World War II, North American P-51 Mustang survivor in civilian ownership

                The warbird registry follows the history of all North American Aviation P-51 Mustangs that survived military service.




                So really it was an "ex" Reno racer that was destroyed.
                Warlock #75, Steve Ballard, Al "Papa" Goss
                RIP 03/17/10

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                • #9
                  Re: Looking for Info on Crash

                  That's it. It was staring me in the face...



                  NTSB Identification: LAX79FUM25
                  14 CFR Part 91 General Aviation
                  Event occurred Tuesday, August 21, 1979 in NSALTON CITY, CA
                  Aircraft: N.AMERICAN P-51D, registration: N332

                  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FILE DATE LOCATION AIRCRAFT DATA INJURIES FLIGHT PILOT DATA F S M/N PURPOSE----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------3-2066 79/8/21 NSALTON CITY,CA N.AMERICAN P-51D CR- 1 0 0 NONCOMMERCIAL PRIVATE, AGE 53, 4500 TIME - 1315 N332 PX- 0 0 0 PLEASURE/PERSONAL TRANSP TOTAL HOURS, 50 IN TYPE, DAMAGE-DESTROYED OT- 0 0 0 NOT INSTRUMENT RATED. DEPARTURE POINT INTENDED DESTINATION YUMA,AZ OXNARD,CA TYPE OF ACCIDENT PHASE OF OPERATION AIRFRAME FAILURE: IN FLIGHT IN FLIGHT: OTHER PROBABLE CAUSE(S) AIRFRAME - FLIGHT CONTROL SURFACES: RUDDER SURFACES,ATTACHMENTS MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - FLUTTER FACTOR(S) MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - SEPARATION IN FLIGHT REMARKS- PACKARD ROLLS-ROYCE V-1650-7 ENG.FLIGHT PHASE UNKNOWN.GENERAL DISINTEGRATION.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Looking for Info on Crash

                    Thanks for all the info. Now I at least have a little knowledge about the plane. I am going to continue to look for the plane. I wish I had known more about the wreck when I found it between late 1979 to 1980. At that time I salvaged the engine, part of a wing and one of the prop blades. I didn't realize it's possible value and scraped it for the aluminum. Oops I later found out at a thunder boat race that the crank shaft was worth quite a bit. I still have the prop blade, a few pistons and a few misc. fittings. Good momentos! Anyway I am going to get some good topo maps and see if I can pin point it's location by some of the land marks that I remember. Thanks again.

                    Mike

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                    • #11
                      Re: Looking for Info on Crash

                      I can't vouch for the autencity of the story, but there was some speculation that the pilot/owner (James Barkley) was a prominent rancher involved in a feud with laborers who planted explosives in his plane, which blew up in mid-air. True or not, it is yet another chapter in the colorful history of civilian Mustangs!

                      T J

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                      • #12
                        Re: Looking for Info on Crash

                        Reading the accident report it sounds like another sad case of "Mustang comes apart in unexpected rudder-flutter incident".
                        _________
                        -Matt
                        Red Bull has no earthly idea what "air racing" is.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Looking for Info on Crash

                          Originally posted by T J Johansen
                          I can't vouch for the autencity of the story, but there was some speculation that the pilot/owner (James Barkley) was a prominent rancher involved in a feud with laborers who planted explosives in his plane, which blew up in mid-air. True or not, it is yet another chapter in the colorful history of civilian Mustangs!

                          T J
                          Most likely an old myth. Explosives leave telltale signs on airframe remains, and the report makes no mention of any explosions or evidence of such being found.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Looking for Info on Crash

                            Hey Mike.

                            I saw the plane on Saturday. If it's the same one. Smack in the middle of Anza-Borrego Desert State Park, resting in a bowl near the top of a difficult to reach mountain.

                            I didn't hike up to it yet, but I don't think this is a P51 variation. Check out the picture of the horizontal tail section. I have Photoshopped in a horizontal tail section of a known P51. The shape is not the same. The crashed aircraft is much more swept than the P51.



                            Best,

                            Mike

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                            • #15
                              Re: Looking for Info on Crash

                              Well it's been a long time since the last post but I am back to trying to re-relocate the P-51D, N332 that crashed in the mud hills near Salton City, Ca. The picture from the previous post is not the site. Too many rocks.The renewed interest in finding the plane comes from the fact that I have a new friend who is in the process of restoring a P-51D and wants to get all the parts he can to have them refabricated for his plane. He took me on a helicpter ride last Thursday and we located the Iron Cross which was placed in memorial for James Barkley who was flying the plane at the time of the crash. The plane is approximately a mile from the cross and is probably covered with dirt from the mud hills by this time as it was in a deep raven barely big enough to hold it. We plan to go out in the jeep in a week or so, with metal detecters and steel probes to search once again. Will let you know what we find.

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