Smallish bugatti racer !

[First time Juke]

Here is a link to a pic:

http://img65.exs.cx/img65/6217/keithbugatti6403ev.jpg

[Chris300s]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

That's an R/C model built by Dr. Keith Shaw of Ann Arbor Michigan. He completed it last year and showed it at the WRAM R/C show in Toledo 2004. Keith went to Reno with us last year, Ribcrackers box B-6. He said that the model flew exceptionally well after some initial teething problems from the counter-rotating propellor gearbox. He's using Lithuim Polymer batteries and an Astro-Cobalt brushed motor. This winter's project is a 1/5th scale Czech Mate. He writes a collumn over at www.ezonemag.com.

Chris

[Peashooter]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

Keith burned a lot of electrons taking pictures of Czech Mate last year!

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

Interesting little airplane. Sort of a tractor version of the Sam Bousfield/Eric Ahlstrom Dart project... or maybe the Dart was a pusher version of this one.. Sorry to Sam or Eric if I got the credit for the airplane wrong. I know they are no longer partnered and I do not know who was/is responsible for the design. I've not heard from Sam in quite a while, it would be fantastic if the airplane ever were built.

Sam once told me that the scale of the artist rendition that I've uploaded was way off, making it look as though it were about IF1 size, rather than the much larger airplane that it was intended to be (V-12 power, probably about the size of a Thunder Mustang, or in that area of size) but looking at the picture, a smaller airplane of this design, with say a very healthy automotive V-8 conversion would make one heck of a sexy travlin' machine... maybe even a nice sport airplane..

Darn, here I go again, wandering mind, dragging a thread off topic a bit.. if the subject takes off, I'll make a new thread if you like..

One of the things that I don't necessairly like about the Sport Air Racing Division is the delivered kit limitation.... Though I completely understand the WHY of the rule, to keep someone from just turning out a one off specialty built airplane that could really rip... which would not be good for the Kit-Built industry...

I'd still like to see, I guess what you'd call an "unlimited Sport Division".. where maybe the only limitation was the engine size.. make that the same as the Sport Division cu. in. maximum size but take away the "delivered kit" restriction.

If there was such a "division" we might well see some very exciting one-off's that eventually could lead to kits.. sort of the opposite of how it is now, make and prove out a kit, then you can race it, you'd make and race an airplane and then you could sell kits of it..

Anyway, again, if this subject takes off, I'll split the thread and make a new subject for those who are irritated by "thread hijacking"... although, the free flow of this sort of topic is what makes these boards interesting IMHO...

[RarebearFan77]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

Wayner, this Bugatti racer was built A looooooong time ago. I remember seeing pics of it in an AirClassic magazine when I was a kid. I'm 38 now so go figure. I don't know if it ever flew but it sure looks fast as hell...

[RarebearFan77]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

As a matter of fact. Alittle look on google and I found this. It was built before WWII.

http://www.bugattirevue.com/revue4/plane.htm

[First time Juke]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

Interesting little airplane. Sort of a tractor version of the Sam Bousfield/Eric Ahlstrom Dart project... or maybe the Dart was a pusher version of this one.. Sorry to Sam or Eric if I got the credit for the airplane wrong. I know they are no longer partnered and I do not know who was/is responsible for the design. I've not heard from Sam in quite a while, it would be fantastic if the airplane ever were built.

Sam once told me that the scale of the artist rendition that I've uploaded was way off, making it look as though it were about IF1 size, rather than the much larger airplane that it was intended to be (V-12 power, probably about the size of a Thunder Mustang, or in that area of size) but looking at the picture, a smaller airplane of this design, with say a very healthy automotive V-8 conversion would make one heck of a sexy travlin' machine... maybe even a nice sport airplane..

Darn, here I go again, wandering mind, dragging a thread off topic a bit.. if the subject takes off, I'll make a new thread if you like..

One of the things that I don't necessairly like about the Sport Air Racing Division is the delivered kit limitation.... Though I completely understand the WHY of the rule, to keep someone from just turning out a one off specialty built airplane that could really rip... which would not be good for the Kit-Built industry...

I'd still like to see, I guess what you'd call an "unlimited Sport Division".. where maybe the only limitation was the engine size.. make that the same as the Sport Division cu. in. maximum size but take away the "delivered kit" restriction.

If there was such a "division" we might well see some very exciting one-off's that eventually could lead to kits.. sort of the opposite of how it is now, make and prove out a kit, then you can race it, you'd make and race an airplane and then you could sell kits of it..

Anyway, again, if this subject takes off, I'll split the thread and make a new subject for those who are irritated by "thread hijacking"... although, the free flow of this sort of topic is what makes these boards interesting IMHO...

I agree Wayne !

I would like to ask 3 questions about that DART aircraft from Sam Bousfield and Eric Ahlstrom.

1. How was the cooling arranged before the plane was in movement ?
2. How were the curved wings trailing edge flaps supposed to operate ?
3. Who was going to build that engine or does it exist already ?

To me that does not look small...VmaxProbe looked small, but was in fact pretty big ( 2 feet longer than a Bede-5b ). Some more details and it would have looked bigger. I agree 454 V-8 would have made that an awesome contender in the sports class. Never too late.

572 would deliver 620 standard and 1000+ enhanced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Big-Block_engine

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

This little tid-bit about how they transferred the power of the Bugatti's tandem engines to the contra-props in front sure caught my eye:

...two drive-shafts were used, one on either side of the pilot...

Yeow! The cockpit must have been one interesting place to be when running at full throttle.

[First time Juke]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

Estimated top speed is pretty high.

I wonder if the 1350 kg is the empty weight ?

http://www.tdmsoftware.com/majewski/rcstuff/bugattiinfo.html

I put 400 kg load to it and it stands like this:

[Kahuna]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

The Bugatti 100 p is very interesting indeed.
As far as "my" sources know the take off weight was 1700 kg what makes a wing load of 149 kg/qm !
Here is a pic of the thing beeing build 1939 !

[First time Juke]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

Good...I had a mistake...Mick Reeves Spit was 10 xs what it should weigh. Few twins added of the Bugatti 100 era.

[stuntflyr]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

The airplane was supposedly designed to acheive a 500+ KPH top speed. That's what, 330mph?
All other speed listings are pure fantasy, I think. The wing is too thick and the HP too low to expect much else. Plus the airplane it was competing against was a Me-109 V4 or so, first of the DB powered airplanes. Nothing near the 400 MPH range to be sure and not even close to the 209R or He100V8.

Super bitchin' airplane, awesome story of intrigue to it's survival. Very nice ultimate disposition of the original and certainly better than many other racers or concept airplanes has received. Looks like a sports car, and the resto certainly has that flavor!

[First time Juke]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

I agree there was no need to go near 885 km/h back then.

There is a considerable difference between the wingloading of Pond Racer ( that was genuiely designed to beat the Rare Bear speed ).

I wonder if that curve between the model of Pond Racer and real one is nowhere near accurate to describe the Reynolds effect between model and the real one ( .....but it might give some glue ? ).

I added some AC:s there. I also respecsed my ac design ( Max III ).

[Blue Foam]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

1. How was the cooling arranged before the plane was in movement ?

Fans. The cooling inlets were forward of the wing, under the aft cockpit. The radiators were under the wing spar and the outlets on the aft belly, forward of the pressure recovery to prevent separation on the aft fuselage. The entire cooling system was below the wing spars which were under the engine. The high cross section of this arrangement was created to match the high fuselage width created by the engine and exhaust manifolds. Matched width and depth allowed symmetry in the radial pressure recovery feeding the prop, and provided for a low fuselage fineness ratio despite the design Mmo of Mach .82 (~650 mph at Reno).

2. How were the curved wings trailing edge flaps supposed to operate ?

Just like the 787. We are grateful that they copied us.

3. Who was going to build that engine or does it exist already ?

Batten-Norwood Max-12. Look it up on the web.

Bob Norwood has since proven that far lower displacement and weight engines can produce high power for long periods of time (100+ hours) needed for air racing. It is my hope to one day get one of these 3-plug, 4-valve/cylinder 4 to 13 HP/ci engines into an air racer.

[First time Juke]

Re: Smallish bugatti racer !

Fans. The cooling inlets were forward of the wing, under the aft cockpit. The radiators were under the wing spar and the outlets on the aft belly, forward of the pressure recovery to prevent separation on the aft fuselage. The entire cooling system was below the wing spars which were under the engine. The high cross section of this arrangement was created to match the high fuselage width created by the engine and exhaust manifolds. Matched width and depth allowed symmetry in the radial pressure recovery feeding the prop, and provided for a low fuselage fineness ratio despite the design Mmo of Mach .82 (~650 mph at Reno).

Just like the 787. We are grateful that they copied us.

Batten-Norwood Max-12. Look it up on the web.

Bob Norwood has since proven that far lower displacement and weight engines can produce high power for long periods of time (100+ hours) needed for air racing. It is my hope to one day get one of these 3-plug, 4-valve/cylinder 4 to 13 HP/ci engines into an air racer.

Excellent Eric,


You have everything figured out. Do you have a test pilot for the project ?

Here in Batten - Norwood site; http://gamma.nic.fi/~wilpu/pikstats.htm

How was the shaft made vibration free ( this was area where Molton Taylor made lotsa inventions ).

One more question what was the planes weight and wingarea ( I could check how it fits into my chart I recently created )?


rgds,

Juke

PS: some drive shaft systems are here; http://www.icon.fi/~jtki/jt11virtual.html
Very interesting data on Stemme motorised glider too.