PDA

View Full Version : Film is STILL good :-)



Pylon1_Mark
12-31-2004, 02:16 AM
OK - not exactly talking about film per say... more about how it translates to the computer display.

Yesterday I came home from visiting a friends house, walked into my computer room and discovered that my monitor was off. Well - I always leave it on so I was a little perplexed - but I figured what the heck, let's see what's the matter. Tried turning it on and off - nothing. Tried a reboot - still nothing. So it was time for the Okie fix - give her a good slap on the side :D . I hear a big BOP - then a strange buzzing sound and about 2 seconds later.... smoke starts rising from the back of it. (by now the wife unit is kinda freaking) Time to pull the plug on this one.

So today it was off to Fry's Electronics to get a new monitor. My old trusty 19" CRT was great in it's day - but time to get a replacement for the "smoker". I was very surprised to find out that CRTs are a dying breed when it comes to high-end models as they had only about a dozen odd assortments of 17" and 19" monitors. So I decide it was time to take the plunge to a flat screen. Brought home a 21.3" Samsung SyncMaster 213T.

At a native resolution of 1600x1200 I was a bit apprehensive, but this thing is a real jewel. I can see detail in the photos I've been scanning that I've never noticed (good along with the bad) and it's just amazing the detail and clarity of these newer breed TFT LCD displays. It certainly has shown this die-in-the-wool CRT guy that scanning slides with a big high-res monitor means.......

Film is STILL good :thumbsup:

AAFO_WSagar
12-31-2004, 02:38 AM
Uh...Oh.... now yer stuff's gonna get even better!!! :eek:

I wondered if you'd wind up getting a flat screen. I think they have improved a lot, if the screen I'm looking at on my lappy is any measure of the genre... I know they do their things a bit different but new laptops sure have a better display than even a few years ago.

I suspect that when (hopefully NOT soon) my 19" Samsung SyncMaster goes out, I'll prolly bite the bullet and wind up with a flatscreen...

World's gonna look a lot different at that native res bud!! ;)

I'm real impressed with Samsung's stuff, not at all surprised that you chose them.

Wayner

Pylon1_Mark
12-31-2004, 03:34 AM
I actually have the browser window sized to 1024x1200 (can see LOTS more of the page length now :D ) - leaving me enough side area for my email client and a nice little area for watching videos/TV ;) . Guess I'm just spoiled at looking at the web at 1024 - just can't seem to do it any other way. Old habits die hard :p

T. Adams
01-01-2005, 10:18 AM
I am facing the same choice. My now 6 yr. old CRT needs to be replaced. I like the looks of the LCD's to, but from what I am reading on many of the photography web sites, the CRT is still the king. From what many are saying the LCD's are so bright and sharp, that when you think your photo looks good on your LCD, it will look dark and fuzzy on a CRT. The same will happen when you print, dark and fuzzy. Since I have never used a LCD, that is all I have to go on. Everybody also says they need to be calibrated monthly, especially if you leave them on all the time. This is something else I'll need to buy.

I think I'm going to get another space hogging CRT. At least they are much improved over my 6 yr. old model, plus much cheaper than a high end LCD.

Victor Archer
01-01-2005, 04:35 PM
Tim is right about the LCD's. You probably won't see any LCD screens where people are doing any kind of print production work. The colors on the LCD's are too hot/bright and cannot be reproduced in the CMYK/4-color printing process they are even a bit too bright for RGB printing. LCD's are great for the web but you should keep in mind the only place you will see the brilliant colors on a LCD screen is on another LCD screen. I use High Resolution CRT monitors that have been calibrated with a digital spectrometer to match the CMYK as close as possible for the work I do.

Pylon1_Mark
01-01-2005, 04:47 PM
I am facing the same choice. My now 6 yr. old CRT needs to be replaced. I like the looks of the LCD's to, but from what I am reading on many of the photography web sites, the CRT is still the king. From what many are saying the LCD's are so bright and sharp, that when you think your photo looks good on your LCD, it will look dark and fuzzy on a CRT. The same will happen when you print, dark and fuzzy. Since I have never used a LCD, that is all I have to go on. Everybody also says they need to be calibrated monthly, especially if you leave them on all the time. This is something else I'll need to buy.

I think I'm going to get another space hogging CRT. At least they are much improved over my 6 yr. old model, plus much cheaper than a high end LCD.
And there is the rub between digital cameras vs the traditional film cameras....... you need a CRT to determine if a photo is sharp. With slides, you only need a 8x lupe and a light tray. Before I ever scan an slide, it's luped for the :thumbsup: or :2thumbsdo . Only sharp, crisp photos make the cut, the other slides are tossed in the trash. You did make a very valid point on the brightness differences of the monitors. The LCD is much brighter then the CRT... but then - if I want a print, I do have a separate computer with a CRT for that purpose (networked to this one)... or I just take the slide to the local photo lab for an enlargement, which is what I do for anything over an 8x10 anyway.

Regardless of that, everyone's needs are different - what works for some may not work for others. For me - a CRT wasn't the best solution. It's attributes are simply not needed for my applications. I use my main computer for much more then just photo processing - and have come to appreciate the advantages that the new high-end displays offer.

Victor Archer
12-06-2006, 11:25 AM
:thumbsup: :D

On Site Grafix
12-07-2006, 08:38 PM
I too found the brightness of an LCD a little misleading. The first time I edited on my laptop (I can hear the cringing now), and had the results printed, the end result was much darker and less contrasting than expected.

I've done so much of it now, that I've recalibrated my brain to adapt to the laptop when I'm on it. I love the display of flat panel LCD's but still find that calibrated CRT results are more accurate for anything going to print.

Even then we get into the whole 'color space' issue with subtractive CMYK color (less color means a lighter image) vs. RGB additative color (adding color lightens the image)

Victor Archer
12-07-2006, 09:08 PM
Yeah sort of...lol I've been in the printing/graphics industry for 30 years.
when you take it to an art form every image is different no matter what the process...

On Site Grafix
12-08-2006, 03:45 PM
That's true enough Victor.

In fact even with everything calibrated the best it can be, the closer to the middle of the color space spectrum an image is, the closer CMYK printed output will match an RGB screen image. The farther toward one end of the spectrum or the other we go, the more the differences between the two become apparent.

That's what makes each image different when trying to optimize output. After 20 years in the graphics and print business myself, I still learn new stuff about this all the time. Keeps the work fun and interesting.

One things for sure for me at least, I don't want to go back the 'the good old days' in this arena

Victor Archer
01-12-2007, 05:01 PM
Tim is right about the LCD's. You probably won't see any LCD screens where people are doing any kind of print production work. The colors on the LCD's are too hot/bright and cannot be reproduced in the CMYK/4-color printing process they are even a bit too bright for RGB printing. LCD's are great for the web but you should keep in mind the only place you will see the brilliant colors on a LCD screen is on another LCD screen. I use High Resolution CRT monitors that have been calibrated with a digital spectrometer to match the CMYK as close as possible for the work I do.

It's funny to read this now... I'm all LCD :eek:

T. Adams
01-12-2007, 06:04 PM
No kidding, try to find a CRT now. When the tax money comes back its a Dell 24" for me.

AAFO_WSagar
01-12-2007, 07:46 PM
I've been working mostly on my "high end" Dell laptop for almost two years now and I'm actually quite pleased with the results I get when printing. It seems to be closer than when I used my CRT...

I bought the calibration hardware/software for this laptop (or any machine) but I'll be danged if I can do anything when using it. I always fall back to the old eyeball method.. look, print, correct, print again... next time, if I print soon enough to remember they way things look/look then I do it in one shot...

It'd be hard to go back to my CRT even though it's a good one..

:dunno:

Victor Archer
01-12-2007, 07:52 PM
I had a 19" ViewSonic CRT right next to a 19" ViewSonic LCD and I really could not see much of a difference. Ah, but what is really nice is the little space the LCD takes up, now I have two 19" LCD's side by side.

AAFO_WSagar
01-12-2007, 07:58 PM
I had a 19" ViewSonic CRT right next to a 19" ViewSonic LCD and I really could not see much of a difference. Ah, but what is really nice is the little space the LCD takes up, now I have two 19" LCD's side by side.
My CRT was is a Samsung... can't remember the model (I'm not at home to check) and I absolutely loved it..

No question though, the LCD technology has far surpassed CRT! I splurged and got myself an Xmas present on "black friday"... they were on DEEP sale and I grabbed a 37" LCD TV... I'm stunned every time I turn it on!

Just got back from the movie theater, at this one, they are all digital projection in HD only....

Pretty much rivals the clarity of a good LCD...

Someone pointed out that AAFO had been around 10 years this year.. In looking back at about the 1994-95 range when I got my first computer, it's pretty amazing how far things have progressed in 10-12 years!

I'm going to send this on a wireless connection that is about 100 times faster than the dialup that I originally uploaded all the stuff for this site with, from a computer that has about 100 or more times the power of the one I originally built this site with...

What will the next 10 years bring!

:thumbsup:
:confused:
:D

jarrodeu
01-12-2007, 08:34 PM
I had a 19" ViewSonic CRT right next to a 19" ViewSonic LCD and I really could not see much of a difference. Ah, but what is really nice is the little space the LCD takes up, now I have two 19" LCD's side by side.
How does the 2 screens side by side work? I heard of it but never seen it.

Jarrod