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**champ19** · 10-22-2004, 04:03 PM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

Wayne:
Although not a fighter pilot by a long shot, I have always addressed those with rank higher than mine (most) and people carrying firearms (usually police officers) by their titles and often, "sir". I have gotten out of quite a few speeding tickets with this technique, actually. I am sure that most on this board would have no problem addressing Capt. Randy Haskin by his callsign, but a military officer with whom you are doing business as a civilian I personally call him "sir" or Colonel. Just my 2 cents, but you asked.
BTW, I don't think this is a dumb question at all. I work at a joint use (military, civilian) airport and have a lot of dealings with the "rank" and file. For the "rank" it is "sir." That is until, as you say, have some beers with them. You can never go wrong with "sir". Again, just my 2 cents.

**AAFO_WSagar** · 10-22-2004, 06:39 PM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

Champ, I think, unless I have beers with the LtCol. and he personally says to me.... "call me... <insert call sign here> that erring on the side of respect for rank and position is, for sure the way to go..

But, when they sign their emails with the callsign, that does open up the arena for not knowing what to do.. virtually everyone refers to him by the CS.

I also do when talking to anyone else about him, most of the time anyway.

I'll tell you what though, this guy is the sharpest tack in the pack and, he's just a super guy to deal with! Last year, every single problem we went to him with.. his eyes would do a little dart to the side and he'd come up with either a solution or a, "I'm not sure, let me check on that".. never once did I hear him say "no way" even when one of the "crew" on John Parker's plane semi-jokingly answered his "anything I can do for you, let me know" statement with "well yea, how bout putting this airplane in that C-17 out there and delivering it to Stead...

To my amazement and everyone else's I'm sure, he did not laugh it off, he got on his phone and asked if it could be done.. Unfortunately, the airplane was already buttoned up and taxiiing out or, I'm almost certain that it might well have happened! Would that have been a hoot for Parker and the crew!!!!!!

A real Can-Do guy and a shining example of a REALLY GOOD career officer!

Wayne

**Randy Haskin** · 10-23-2004, 02:54 AM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

Wayne -

Last time I checked, you weren't wearing a uniform, so there is no reason in the world for you to address anyone as "sir." I know I sort of give a funny look to non-military folks who say that to me. I know they mean in it a respectful way, but it just sounds a little strange coming from a non-military person.

If you are concerned with coming across as a professional when you deal with this Lt Col, then use his rank and name; "Thanks for your help, Col Smith." (As you properly posted, Wayne, Lt Cols are called "Colonel" when you are just addressing them -- I'm pretty sure I can dig out one of my old military protocol books if you want to know why because I don't remember offhand). In a military environment you can never go wrong with rank and last name.

NOW, as a fighter pilot, I can tell you that this Lt Col probably has been called by his callsign for more than a decade. It *is* his name by now. Wayne, if you were to call my squadron and say, "hey, I'd like to speak to Randy," the guy on the phone would look at the guy sitting next to him and say, "who the f*ck is 'Randy'?" Fighter pilots don't have first names anymore, at least when it comes to what they do at work -- their callsign is their name. Addressing them by that callsign, by the way, is a sign of respect in and of itself.

So, I am 100% certain that you would be not hurting this guy's feelings one bit if you addressed him by his callsign. He's certainly not going to think "Man, can you believe the gaul of this Wayne Sagar guy using my callsign when talking to me?" Heck, you even *asked* him, and he said he didn't care.

I'd go with the callsign and not worry that you're not paying him the proper amount of respect.

**AAFO_WSagar** · 10-23-2004, 03:18 AM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

Hey.. yer the guy I was hoping would answer this. The Col never said he didn't care, he just didn't answer me..

All of his emails are about as long as the above two lines... You guys say a lot in a short amount of words

I'm glad I understand the significance of the callsign now. And why even subordinate non-coms have been seen addressing him by it..

I will still call anyone in uniform "sir" just out of respect for what you do.

I call a lot of people sir, to me, it's an "old school" sort of respect thing. Gotta remember Randy, I was born in 1951, back then, it was probably a lot like the military, just going to grade school!

You did NOT disrespect the teacher, or the storekeeper, or the mailman, or the milkman or ANYBODY... when I was five, we were only just about 10 years or less "post WWII" jets were still really new and something to wow about.. there were still actual peefiddyones flying in the military here and there..

Anyway... it was just different and I suppose, even with all the years I lived as a young adult through the sixties, seventies and eighties didn't take the "old school" days out of me....

Thank you SIR....

**Randy Haskin** · 10-23-2004, 02:20 PM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

Originally posted by AAFO_WSagar

I call a lot of people sir, to me, it's an "old school" sort of respect thing. Gotta remember Randy, I was born in 1951, back then, it was probably a lot like the military, just going to grade school!

You did NOT disrespect the teacher, or the storekeeper, or the mailman, or the milkman or ANYBODY

Yes, I run into that a lot, especially living in the deep South (a real cultural change from a 20-year Pacific Northwest native!). I certainly don't mind it, and I realize that for a lot of people calling gentlemen "sir" is absolutely a form of respect. It doesn't seem as prevalent as it was when you were growing up, but there's certainly a lot of parents attempting to raise their kids that way down here.

Interestingly, though, I find a lot of people who are not in the military feeling like they have to act/talk as though they are...like a military officer is going to be offended if they aren't afforded the same customs and courtesies by a civilian that they are enlisted airmen, NCOs, or junior officers. Then again, there *are* the occasional officers on power trips, heh heh. I personally don't feel it's necessary, nor do I feel slighted if a civilian walks up to me while I'm in uniform at an airshow or something and calls me by my first name, or "dude" or whatever. Only if they start calling me "baby killer" do I start to twitch and freak out.

**AAFO_WSagar** · 10-23-2004, 02:57 PM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

Originally posted by Randy Haskin

Only if they start calling me "baby killer" do I start to twitch and freak out.

Ya'know, it's interesting how one can live through an era and not really know so many details of that it. I remember back in the Viet Nam days, in my circle of friends, even if you were not a war supporter (trust me, no matter what anyone says today, supporters were pretty darn few and far between, like Johnson said, when we lost Cronkite, we lost the war

) you did not have any disrespect or resentment for those who were fighting that war. I had several friends who went over, I never thought of them as anything but either unfortunate to have *had* to have endured the mess that it was by the time I was 18+ or just plain brave as hell. Yet, I hear stories of that time where people spat on vets and heckled them.. Man, I'll tell you, at least in my group of buds, we'd have smacked the suckers had I ever witnessed that!

In other words, at least in my opinion, even if you don't support a war, you support the men and women fighting it.

Keep up the good work Randy! Wish you could bring something out to Nellis! Even yer bod would work, I still have yet to get to meet you face to face..

Wayne

**Peashooter** · 10-23-2004, 03:36 PM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

My AME is a former flight surgeon for a USAF B-36 wing. (Yup, he's in his early 80s!) I refer to him as "sir", especially when he snaps on the rubber glove!

**connie** · 10-23-2004, 06:29 PM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

[In other words, at least in my opinion, even if you don't support a war, you support the men and women fighting it.

Well said, Wayne.

I had a chance to meet General Hornburg (ACC Commander)at a Captone deal). I was so nervous because I didn't know how to address him. I simply said, "It's an honor to meet you, sir." The man who indroduced us is a retired Lt. Col. and said, He puts his pants on like everybody else.

I think "sir" is safe. I know alot of retired "black project" guys from the "Ranch" and one of them was a Major General. How in the heck to you address that?? just....General? And..also to add to your comment about the vets..I come in contact w/ many of them and I am so appreciative of all of them...and these young guys that are just joining up (like Jeff L.'s son) Thank you, Randy and all those serving our country.

**AAFO_WSagar** · 10-23-2004, 06:45 PM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

Yea Connie, I think they all just deserve a generic "SIR" when addressing them.

You all ready for Vegas? I head down weekend after next!

Man this stuff sneaks up on ya's! I have been practicing drinking water though and I'm doing pretty well, and the doctor says a drink or three will do me no harm... so!

Mebbie "Joker's" (did you meet him?) crew will buy this time..

(Joker was the commander of the .... wing or group or whatever the title of the "fractional" is that brought out the static B-52 and also had the two that made the live bomb runs at the Live Fire Demo..)

Now, once you get drunk with a guy.. you don't have to call them sir anymore..

Wayne

**Randy Haskin** · 10-23-2004, 07:09 PM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

Technically speaking, guys, General officers are to be addressed as "General" and not "sir".

Interesting, eh?

**connie** · 10-23-2004, 07:32 PM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

Yes, Wayne,... I'm sort of ready..... Have to figure out my days off, get days picked up, etc. I am "planning" on arriving Tues the 9th. I may just BUY a plane tkt so i don't have to worry about getting stuck. We'll see.
No I don't know the Joker crew...but yes, at that point "sir" does not matter. I remember last year on the ramp..after show..we had a great time out there. I had such a good time that I did not drive. Yikes!!
Yes, I saw note about the quote thing on posts. Thanks!
Connie

**connie** · 10-23-2004, 07:33 PM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

Randy, Oh I guess I blew it with Hornburg, eh?

**Randy Haskin** · 10-23-2004, 08:17 PM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

Originally posted by connie

Randy, Oh I guess I blew it with Hornburg, eh?

Probably not...I have a feeling that when you get to the level that General Hornburg is at, little things like that don't bother you!

**connie** · 10-23-2004, 10:34 PM

Re: Fighter Pilot Call Sign Protocol.. dumb question?

Good point, Randy

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