Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup boats.

[SkyvanDelta]

Through some research, I was able to contact Stan Honey. He's the man responsible for the GPS tracking units on the Americas Cup sailboats, the yellow first down line in football, the glowing hockey puck in Ice Hockey, the strike zone in baseball and more.

I've invited him to come here and discuss the idea of GPS tracking units on Reno Air Racing Planes. Stand by for him to arrive. Keep in mind he's an ocean racer so he could be anywhere and very isolated from the internet for months.

Here are a couple of quotes/facts about Stan:

"...has developed a system to track the America's Cup boats to within 2cm (or 0.787402-inch), 5 times per second. The program then quickly superimposes graphics, such as ahead-behind lines, on the live helicopter footage of the race to help viewers follow the action of the AC45s and AC72s as they soar around the racecourse."

"And then my career has been in electrical engineering, working in vehicle navigation, and remote sensoring, and tracking and highlighting systems for sports. I worked at SRI international, which did a lot of government research for a number of years. Then I started a company called ETAK, who pioneered vehicle navigation, you know the moving map displays for cars - ETAK is now part of TomTom. Then I started a company called Sportvision that does the yellow first down line in football, and does the tracking of the NASCAR cars and IRL, and does the tracking of baseballs in televised baseball."

video and story: http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/05/ame...eo-stan-honey/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportvision

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article...976.php#page-1

https://www.sportvision.com/news/sta...k-out-everyone

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2012/...me-Changer.asp

[Matt58]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

This is very interesting...

[ChrisMX105]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

I know the technology is there however I wonder at the cost?

America's Cup class boats are made from resin impregnated $100 bills and the sails are stitched together from the wings of endangered butterflies so I am sure the cost of GPS hardware is no problem.............

[flyboycpa]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

I know the technology is there however I wonder at the cost?

America's Cup class boats are made from resin impregnated $100 bills and the sails are stitched together from the wings of endangered butterflies so I am sure the cost of GPS hardware is no problem.............

…and they're not pulling 9G's at 500+mph. The technology might not work as well on a fast target under a high G-load, as it does on an America's Cup boat.

just a thought,
Sam

[ChrisMX105]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

…and they're not pulling 9G's at 500+mph. The technology might not work as well on a fast target under a high G-load, as it does on an America's Cup boat.

just a thought,
Sam

Really hope he shows up and gives us some input..................

And no more than 6 G's I think 4 is normal max.

[Desertdawg]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

Data is sampled at 5 times per second, thats good for boats.

At air race speeds of lets say 490 mph = 718 feet per second

Which is 143 fps of ground covered per data sampling. That could lead to errors?

Just like everything else in technology - sample rates of 10 per second is around the corner though.

I still like the idea of multiple observers for the show line with couple cameras for replay.

[boomtown]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

Maybe Michael Luvara will chime in here. My understanding is that the technology exisits but is not available for civillian use.

[Mluvara]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

I have experience with numerous aircraft at reno carrying one of my telemetry systems. All works well until the combined speed and g's are up in the range of 480mph and 3-4 g's. I've used systems with 1 to 5Hz acquisition and had similar issues.

Couple of things:

For the speed the unlimiteds are going, there are filters in the receiver that are a byproduct of the COCOM limits the government puts on gps receivers. These limits constrain the solutions that the receivers put out. At some point, they put out erroneous data, or something that is off from the actual course. Simply put, they don't want you building missiles with them.

With all due respect, the dynamics of Reno and America's Cup are totally different. Airplanes are covering a HUGE space at 500mph and are banking. This banking changes the view of the sky and the available satellites. Americas cup are going slow (comparatively) and are not changing the antenna's view of the sky so rapidly. They also have resources and teams that are employed full time. Their budgets are pretty endless and the equipment they use is not cheap.

Running differential GPS may help with a fixed station, but I do not have experience with that.

I think it's great people are trying to try and make a tracking system, but I don't think it's worth the effort for a once a year race.

Michael

[Mluvara]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

Really hope he shows up and gives us some input..................

And no more than 6 G's I think 4 is normal max.

Here's data from Voodoo on the infamous Saturday gold race vs Tiger

Michael

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[SkyvanDelta]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

With all due respect, the dynamics of Reno and America's Cup are totally different. Airplanes are covering a HUGE space at 500mph and are banking. This banking changes the view of the sky and the available satellites. Americas cup are going slow (comparatively) and are not changing the antenna's view of the sky so rapidly. They also have resources and teams that are employed full time. Their budgets are pretty endless and the equipment they use is not cheap.

I believe the data goes from the sailboat to a helicopter that is flying overhead or receivers located around the course for the Americas Cup Race Boats, not to a satellite.

[Lon Moer]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

AWAC's Sentries use GPS tracking on the fast movers in the ME going a lot faster than 500mph.

[ChrisMX105]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

AWAC's Sentries use GPS tracking on the fast movers in the ME going a lot faster than 500mph.

I think that falls under the Military though so they would have unlocked GPS devices

[Mluvara]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

I believe the data goes from the sailboat to a helicopter that is flying overhead for the Americas Cup Race Boats, not to a satellite.

GPS reception on a moving object requires a view of satellites in the sky. The gps receiver senses timing of signal transmission from the satellites and thus calculates position. The change in position between updates allows for speed to be derived. Any signal from a sailboat to a helicopter is for data to be transferred to TV, tracking,etc. A GPS receiver is just that, a receiver.

http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/

http://www.directionsmag.com/articles/the-fundamentals-of-gps/124028

http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/

Michael

[SkyvanDelta]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

GPS reception on a moving object requires a view of satellites in the sky. The gps receiver senses timing of signal transmission from the satellites and thus calculates position. The change in position between updates allows for speed to be derived. Any signal from a sailboat to a helicopter is for data to be transferred to TV, tracking,etc. A GPS receiver is just that, a receiver.

http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/

http://www.directionsmag.com/articles/the-fundamentals-of-gps/124028

http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/

Michael

Update. I think I found it. Go to this video and freeze it at 9:36. It shows the signal is sent from the boat to the satellite, from the satellite to the helicopter, from the helicopter to a land based receiver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4OP-R8jCq4

I'm trying to find the information on how it works. Is this it here?

http://virtualeye.tv/index.php/the-sports/virtual-eye-sailing

How It All Works

Data from each boat is transmitted
Data is received at our radio site
Data gets sent to our data server
Data is processed
Mark, timing and wind information is added
3D output is created
... all in seconds!


Data Specifications

0.6 metre accuracy with differential
1 to 10 hz data
Dual GPRS and UHF Network for full redundancy
Satellite tracking if required
Compact, all-in-one design

Is this it here?

http://www.panbo.com/archives/2011/11/americas_cup_34_a_tech_overview.html

And it was quite exciting in the LiveLine production booth, which is actually a container stuffed with electronics and some very skilful operators. An unidentified and intermittent RF source was messing up the LiveLine helicopter video feed. The chopper's data feed -- it's tracked 10x more precisely than the race boats -- was fine, but it's frustrating to overlay all that useful LiveLine data onto imperfect video. Many possible causes were discussed, some explored, but I think the actual broadcast was fine because they've built in lots of fall back options. - See more at: http://www.panbo.com/archives/2011/1....eW7kSLCd.dpuf

Is this it here?

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/13/technology/how-it-works-the-america-s-cup-up-close-without-binoculars.html

GETTING THE DATA The boats, buoys, background and other elements of the display are downloaded once to a users computer. The system sends out small packets of data during a race; display processing occurs on the users machine. 1) G.P.S. DATA Global Positioning System satellite signals are received via an antenna on stern. 2) G.P.S. RECEIVER G.P.S. unit in box on boat calculates position. Box also contains a compass, data-management chips and a modem. 3) TRANSMITTING THE DATA Data is sent from each boat via cellphone network and then by land line to race media center. 4) COMBINING THE DATA Computers in the media center combine the race data with wind information. Commentary is added as well.

[Mluvara]

Re: Introducing Stan Honey. An expert in GPS tracking devices on the Americas Cup bo

AWAC's Sentries use GPS tracking on the fast movers in the ME going a lot faster than 500mph.

There are some performance limits on GPS receivers under "COCOM" limits (altitude and speed). Most pertain to altitude and speed limits, but manufacturers can add more to it. Most of them don't intend on them being used other than cars, planes in straight lines,etc.

Speed on a standard GPS is usually limited to 1200mph, which is fine. But as you maneuver rapidly, the result is a device that can be used for bad things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoCom

However- think if you were a GPS receiver manufacturer, would you allow users of your device to go 1200mph and give position updates that were above 4 g's?

Michael