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Coyote Chris
07-09-2012, 07:57 PM
:OT-2: Yet another American aviation company goes Chineese....
HAWKER BEECHCRAFT AGREES TO OFFER FROM CHINESE COMPANY
(http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/HawkerBeechcraftAgreesToOfferFromChineseCompany_20 6946-1.html)

Hawker Beechcraft will be sold to Superior Aviation Beijing Co. for
$1.79 billion, the company announced on Monday, assuming that a final
agreement is worked out over the next 45 days. The transaction will
not include the Hawker Beechcraft Defense Co., which produces the T-6
trainer and is developing the AT-6 light attack aircraft. "The
decision to move forward with Superior was based on two key factors,"
said Chairman Bill Boisture. "The bid for the company was the most
attractive we received during the strategic review process and the
going-forward plan offered the most continuity for our business,
allowing us to preserve jobs, product lines and our ability to
maintain our commitments to our customers." The company will maintain
a "strong presence" in the U.S., Boisture said, retaining its current
employee base and management team.

Superior Aviation Beijing intends to make Hawker Beechcraft its
"flagship investment," the company said in a news release. During the
45-day review period, the companies will negotiate a "definitive
agreement," which would be subject to various regulatory reviews and
approval processes both in the U.S. and in China. Superior will start
to make payments to Hawker over the next six weeks to "support ongoing
jet-related operations" and help Hawker keep the business going until
the close of the transaction. Hawker CEO Steve Miller says the
agreement will give the company greater access to the Chinese business
and general aviation marketplace, which is forecast to grow more than
10 percent a year for the next 10 to 15 years.

>>> Watch AVweb.com for More on This Story

Stay tuned to AVweb.com for more updates on this story:
http://www.avweb.com/alm?home&kw=AVwebAlert

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AirDOGGe
07-09-2012, 09:56 PM
We all already know the Chinese will end up owning the world someday.

Hmmm...I seem to recall that being said of the Japanese a couple of decades ago when they were buying up U.S. properties. They're hurting now. Just give it time and the way they are going, China will eventually run into it's own "Great Depression" and balance things out.

I just don't know if it will happen in my lifetime or not. :dunno:




:OT-2:
Beechcraft now Chineese

Yet another American aviation company goes Chineese....


I don't know why, but I think I like your spelling better...

... :D

Lockheed Bob
07-10-2012, 03:47 PM
To know how history evolves you just have to read 2 books 1."The Rise & Fall Of The Roman Empire" & 2. The scary one,"One World Order". I think I'll go have a cold one. Come on Sept.:beerchug::beerchug:

C_roundy
07-10-2012, 03:51 PM
We all already know the Chinese will end up owning the world someday.

Hmmm...I seem to recall that being said of the Japanese a couple of decades ago when they were buying up U.S. properties. They're hurting now. Just give it time and the way they are going, China will eventually run into it's own "Great Depression" and balance things out.

I just don't know if it will happen in my lifetime or not. :dunno:
... :D

I agree strongly AirDOGGe, one of the basic functions of learning history, is that it teaches, shows, and proves to us that everything is cyclic.
I believe that from the historical perspective, a solid measure of faith in our American institutions, (including raw capitalism especially), is well founded. We are truly a super-power nation.

Example: During the height of the cold war, who understood (assuming we didn't blow the world up), that we would finally beat the USSR into submission, (and clean out of existence in their case), with the long-term economic superiority inherent in our brand of capitalism?

Historians thats who. :flag::flag::flag:

Bob
07-10-2012, 04:00 PM
The ruskies are not dead yet, putin has great amounts of european cash now, revenue from oil/gas sales, and is building up their military. China is also on a big expansion of its military. And while this is going on, we are selling/closing/downgrading ours.....

The ruskies have publicly said that they want the territories of the old ussr back under their control, problem is that several of these old ussr countries are now NATO members....

So what, besides an aircraft company did china just buy? Think they had patents and or technologies that will benefit the chinese?

C_roundy
07-10-2012, 04:22 PM
Hate to hafta' say it, but yer missin' the point here Bob.
I was discussing the Communist institution that was known as the U.S.S.R. (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics). we won the cold war, as of 1991, the USSR doesn't even exist anymore.....

AirDOGGe
07-10-2012, 05:04 PM
...that we would finally beat the USSR into submission, (and clean out of existence in their case), with the long-term economic superiority inherent in our brand of capitalism?




I'm not sure if we actually beat them or if they just mis-managed the Soviet Union into the ground.

Probably both.

:cool:

C_roundy
07-10-2012, 06:41 PM
Our form of Capitalism isn't perfect, but it sure sustained the Trillions of dollars of cold war military expenditure way better than their form "Socialist" Communism did. Thats the essence of my point.

And because of that, at least we'e still around to have some shining moments of stuff besides mis-management, while the USSR is not. :)

rampking
07-10-2012, 07:22 PM
I'm not sure if we actually beat them or if they just mis-managed the Soviet Union into the ground.

Probably both.

:cool:

The Soviet Union was always at best a First World military with a 2nd world economy.
Khrushev pounding this shoe on the podium and boasting of Burying
the USA economically was an empty boast by a pompous leader.
However with China we have the largest population, the 4th largest in land mass, the largest standing military, most powerful economy in the world with the nearly the cheapest labor force and little or no worker or environmental safeguards. Tianamen square just ancient history now?

Regarding aircraft technology, as this very moment GE is with government approval assisting China with developing jet engines.
This with a country that is the king of reverse engineering, cloning and flat out stealing technology.
They are the number one producers of the Su-27, yet the Russians don't receive a cent for it.
Compare the Chinese J-10 jet fighter with the IAF Lavi and our own F-16, is this just a freak of engineering this happened ???

The Chinese did a 20 year leap foward in technology with the
J-20 Stealth Fighter prototype, but there are no red flags waving/no investigations launched into how they acquired this technology and from where?

We need to trust in "everything is cyclic"
Everything is going to be okay..........
absolutely nothing to worry about.
:beerchug:

Lockheed Bob
07-10-2012, 09:06 PM
Don't forget the early Russian Migs had Rolls-Royce engines in them after England gave them some & then they reverse engineered them.

rampking
07-10-2012, 09:29 PM
Don't forget the early Russian Migs had Rolls-Royce engines in them after England gave them some & then they reverse engineered them.

Indeed, the Rolls Royce Nene turbojet within the MiG-15.
The British had the lead in jet engine technology after WWII and literally gave it away.
Bear in mind, the Soviets were the only major combatant that had no jet fighter in development throughout the war. Hell, an argument could be made the Italians were even ahead of them.
5 short years later, what happened?
Since 'history' was brought up here by one commentator, it never fails to amaze me how we never LEARN from it.

King
07-11-2012, 05:33 AM
Keep in mind that Hawker Beechcraft is probably one of the biggest authorities when it comes to manufacturing certified composite aircraft. That is a huge technology that China is purchasing.

I guess the one good thing about that is that Hawker has lost a good majority of it brains through layoffs,etc over the years. So even though the technology, reports and data are there, the brain power is gone. And contrary to what some people think, you HAVE to have that knowledge in place to make the technology happen.

AirDOGGe
07-11-2012, 08:57 AM
Bear in mind, the Soviets were the only major combatant that had no jet fighter in development throughout the war. Hell, an argument could be made the Italians were even ahead of them.
5 short years later, what happened?


How about the Russians answer you themselves?

A number of Russian television programs on their aircraft history have been translated and uploaded (finally!). I''ve seen and learned about so many aircraft from them that I never even knew existed.

. Your answer can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCUd7WcaLO0


.

Leo
07-11-2012, 09:38 AM
Since 'history' was brought up here by one commentator, it never fails to amaze me how we never LEARN from it.

That's because we no longer teach it. It has always been my hobby and I came very close to majoring in it. It was always my "easy A" in college to raise my GPA. I've luckily instilled some of that interest in my son. His hight school history books had literally a chapter or two on WW2 for example. How can they understand the complex political issues, sacrifices, tactics and strategies from that? I have a room full of books on the subject and barely gloss it over I feel.

Andy Rooney summed up the Soviet Union quite nicely:
"I've never feared Russia's technology and might, I've driven their cars."

rampking
07-11-2012, 06:55 PM
QUOTE=AirDOGGe;103000]How about the Russians answer you themselves?

A number of Russian television programs on their aircraft history have been translated and uploaded (finally!). I''ve seen and learned about so many aircraft from them that I never even knew existed.

. Your answer can be found here:

Right off the bat, great film of many Soviet aircraft that I have only seen in photos.
Great quality restored film as well.
However...
I realize that I have not watched the whole series,
but how can they talk about the I-16 Rata fighter aircraft without referring in some way to it's ENGINE (M25), a licence built copy of the American
Wright Cyclone 1820 ??
From my studies and exchange of comments with native Russians, their
interpetation of history is very selective.
Wasn't so long ago that the Kremlin opened the books, and they have come a long way but with Putin in charge who knows the future.

My comment: "5 short years later, what happened?...was a reference to the shock we went through when the MiG-15 appeared over the skies of Korea and how the Soviet got to that point a mere 5 years after VE day.
Emergency redeployment of F-86's to counter them.
This was just an open question for others to ponder and research.
I am already pretty well versed with this subject but it will still be interesting to see the Russian perspective within these video's...
I'll watch them in the same way I watch Russia Today (RT) on PBS.
Perhaps something new will be revealed that I can dig into.
Thanks for the link,
REALLY nice that it is in English too!
:thumbsup: