500 MPH At Reno: Doubtful this year?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Do any of you "pit wags" think this might keep us from seeing the "Hot Lap" at Reno 2003 Reno Low Temps

Ten day forcast has Monday, at 82 degrees, the "hottest" day of the three qual days....

Not a lot of difference between the other two, which show a prediction of 80 degrees each... how much difference does two degrees make? Will Monday be "the" day to qualify?????

The weather might well play into this year quite a lot..

Wayne

[Unregistered]

I think the temp might play a big part in a 500 lap if we're talking the bear, but I don't think it really matters for dago this year. It looks like there has been a ton of time put into slickening up the wing and fuse during the off season and I would bet that they will qual above 505 running the same power they have been since 98. Although I probably wouldn't being saying this if Skip wasn't in the cockpit. I wasn't there last year when they turned the 497 lap but I have seen video of it and skips line around the pylons was amazing. I had always thought that it would be hard to see the difference between a 470 and 500 lap, but I have never seen a lap like skips 497 last year. Maybe someone who was actualy there can let me know if i am exaggerating. I wish I could make it up this year on monday to see the first 500 lap. It might be the most exciting part of the week unless there is a good race for second on sunday. Believe it or not, I'm not really a big dago fan, but who can not get excited about a team that is so tuned. I am really looking forward to seeing 4 or 5 big radials chasing dago around all week.

[Reever]

Wayne,

Low 80's. Isn't that perfect? Of course if, and that's a big IF, the wind doesn't pick up.

[T. Adams]

Cooler is bad??

Help me out here, but in drag racing the cooler the air is, the better, from Top Fuel to Stock, everything runs better when it is cooler, unless the track is so cold you can't get traction.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Cooler is bad??

Originally posted by T. Adams
Help me out here, but in drag racing the cooler the air is, the better, from Top Fuel to Stock, everything runs better when it is cooler, unless the track is so cold you can't get traction.

I'm not an expert on the subject but I do know a little about it...

Engines like cool dense air, more charge in the combustion chamber, more power.

Airplane engines also like cool dense air but... airframes, much more aerodynamic drag than the tiny frontal area of a dragster, like thin, not dense air..

So... you can make up for the less dense air by running the boost on the engine higher, still make good power but.. the airframe is now pushing through thinner less dense air..

When it gets hot, the relative density of the air (density altitude) goes up with the temperature.. the indicated airspeed will be lower for a given temp at anything above "standard" but the groundspeed will be faster...

Make sense??

Wayne

[claylemon]

It would seem to me that you prepare the engine for the conditions of the air. Please, don't ask me how you configure the gas, or the carb, or even the prop, cuz I dunno. I don't think there is any way to reconfigure the airframe for flight conditions.

If it were me, I would test the plane in all conceivable conditions(if the $ was available) and set it up in the best possible way for the race at hand.

I do not think you could find a correct setting for last years sand storm.


Clay

[Unregistered]

Just food for thought. This year RARA is changing the way the course will be timed. Instead of straight lines between pylons, as in years past, they will now measure the course with an arc around the pylons similar to what most aircraft actually fly. Word has it that this will result in approx. 7% faster times! My prediction is that we will see a 500+ lap!

[AAFO_WSagar]

Originally posted by Unregistered
Just food for thought. This year RARA is changing the way the course will be timed. Instead of straight lines between pylons, as in years past, they will now measure the course with an arc around the pylons similar to what most aircraft actually fly. Word has it that this will result in approx. 7% faster times! My prediction is that we will see a 500+ lap!

I'm not quite sure what you mean? Timing is done by when the airplane passes a point in space, I believe this is the home pylon where the timers sit and do the recording. It would not matter as far as time goes if they fly an arc or very straight course.. If they are going to change the way they measure the course, thereby changing the published length of the course, then yes, this would make a difference in lap times versus computed distance flown...

I had not heard this though... where does this information come from?

Wayne
PS by edit... in calculating the distance of the course by adding all the distances between pylons, published at the official website of the Reno Air Races, you come up with 7.3952 miles.. The published distance for the course in last year's program was 8.2688... so now, I'm truly confused. I always thought that the distance of the course was actually measured as a "between the pylons" distance.. of course, we always knew, the airplanes fly a longer course than that.... but they all fly the same course so it's relative...

Len reads this forum from time to time... (one of the timers) Len, if you read this, can you shed some light on this question?

[ShermB]

Speed sheets

Your friends at the NAG Shack will have the speed sheets with the NEW measurements.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Betty... Good to hear from you... what are they using this time round for distance??

Wayne

[Bill@Interstell]

Temperature has one additional impact, at least for our water cooled friends. If the engine temperatures run cool enough, the fastest Mustangs can fly with the radiator (dog house) door completly shut. Yeh, I know, the door doesn't cover the entire hole even completly shut. Some air has to go through there, except of course for Stiletto, but that's another story.

A number of crews have shelled out fairly big bucks for more efficient radiators in order to be able to shut the door at race speed. If you look at a Mustang with a stock radiator going by at speed, you'll see the door is open at least half way. Typically, the harder they run, the further open the door gets. This adds a lot of extra drag. I know Merlin's Magic picked up almost 20 mph on a borrowed radiator a few years back. They were able to run with the door completly shut. I've got pictures comparing that year to the previous one. This was enough to get Stu to shell out for better cooling of his own. Hope I didn't give away enough secrets to get me whacked just now. I think this is well known on the ramp.

I'm not sure this an issue for Rare Bear or some of the other round motors. While there are cowl doors on some of the stock radials, I beleive Rare Bear and some others have been cowled in. Perhaps I haven't been paying close enough attention. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong out there.

By the way, the other 20 mph Merlin's Magic picked up last year came from filling and painting the wings. I know Stu hated to give up the polished wings, but the laminar flow wings on the Mustang are particularly sensative to even the smallest dents from a speed perspective. If Dago has been doing more work to an already smooth wing, my money is on Dago.

Also, cool day, denser air, less frontal area has the advantage. Round motors may have more displacement and horse power, but also more frontal area. I'd also take Rare Bare over any of the Sea Furys for the same reason. Same basic motor (if there is such a thing), but look at the difference in frontal area between Rare Bear and Critical Mass.

As for earlier comments on piloting...

I agree, Skip flew a terriffic course last year. He rivaled the technique of the best I've seen, Darrly Greenamyer. Darrly always flew very efficiently. Long smooth corners tight to the pylons at the apex. You never saw the plane bank too much then correct. You never saw him gain or loose altitude. Perfection. He didn't win 7 times for nothin. Why am I using the past tense? He is still fying like that today. Check out the sport class.

The other guy I love to watch fly is Matt Jackson. Matt is smooth too, but prefers to stay closer to the ground all the way around rather than flying a constant altitude. I expect thay may give him a bit of an advantage from ground effect at some points on the course, and of course gives a bit of extra speed running downhill through the valley of speed. Of corse you have to give it back going uphill on the front straight except for the last lap, but that could work depending on the situation.

I hope nobody get bent if I didn't brag on their favorite pilot. Everyone out there is a terrific.

What I'd really like to see is the Conquest 1 coming out of retirement with Greenamyer at the controls. Now that would be fun. I suppose once you've handed a bird over to the Smithsonian, you can't get it back.

[ShermB]

Speed sheet info

Wayne:Pulled the sheets from my trunk(car already packed and ready to GO)
UNLTD course:8.4803 miles (last year 8.2688)
AT-6 course: 5.0646 miles (last year 4.9616)
IF-1 course: 3.1875 miles (last year 3.1195)
Jet course: 6.3945 miles (
Bips course:3.1761 miles (last year3.1195
Sport course: 6.3688 miles (last year 6.3089)

Hope that answers part of the question.
See you Sunday in Reno
Betty

[claylemon]

So, what you are saying is, We just have to show up and see what happens when these guys run the course at 499mph or 501 mph.


Clay

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Speed sheet info

Originally posted by ShermB
Wayne:Pulled the sheets from my trunk(car already packed and ready to GO) <snip> Hope that answers part of the question.
See you Sunday in Reno
Betty

Betty, you're one of the best! Thanks for doing that. I don't have a calculation sheet in front of me to see what difference in time that will make, I'll leave that up to you guys and the timers.... I'm pretty good at math, sometimes...

Wondering if someone out there with a time sheet who is REALLY good with numbers could run a computation and see if the difference would have produced a 500 miler for Skip last year, had the distance been calculated at that rate.....

Stragedy for any of the top teams who are capable of hitting that mark will be very interesting to watch this year.. With everything falling into the right slot, both Dago and The Bear are probably in that bracket.... will either of them risk their engine to set the bar at the new rung??

For Dago, is the talk that hitting that mark is not really putting the engine at risk actually true or just pit gossip?

Now... I've got a ton of work to get done B-4 heading down later this week.... I just made a trip to Starbucks and drank a "heart attack special" so... you guys go easy on me now.... I'm gettin old.. tryin' to not get too excited.. Planning on keeping my trusty Chevy firmly rooted to the road at a nice sane 75 mph or so for the entire trip.... don't wanna go gettin' all escited or nuttin here!



Wayne

[ShermB]

Speed sheet

Gee, Wayners,
If'n you were a NAG, I would have your address and could mail you a sheet with all the times awreddy figgered out. If you PM me with your snail mail addy it ccud still git to ye afore ye left Orygun fer Reno.